10.5.3 breaks Spaces

Doesn't seem to depend on anything here.

I never see the behavior others are complaining about.

I can use control->arrow and Finder is not stealing focus on my system.

I have <Command>-<Arrow> set to switch spaces. If I switch from this space (Space 1), with Safari, to the next space (<Command><Right>), which has no apps in it, then switching back to this space (<Command><Left>) will result in the Finder being selected, not Safari.

I have set <Opt><Number> (just to make sure that I'm not accidentally invoking any other changing mechanism) to switch between Spaces. <Opt><2> takes me to an empty space and <Opt><1> returns me to this space, with Finder selected, not Safari. If there is another application in the selected space, then returning to Space 1 will return me to Safari. Otherwise I end up with Finder. I rarely switch directly to a space - I don't recall whether that has changed. It is sub-optimal for me - I'd prefer to return to the previously selected live window.

I also have Mouse Button 4 for selecting a space. That is selected both in Spaces preferences and Mouse preferences. Oddly, squeezing the Mighty Mouse gives me the "Show All Windows In This Space" selection mode. That's the "All Windows" function from Expose - which I see also has Mouse Button 4 attached... Hmm. There's a UI enhancement - it shouldn't be possible to attach Mouse Button 4 to different functions without some kind of resolution process. Anyway, now I've turned that function off... Switching Spaces to an empty space and returning keeps focus in the previous application. I suspect that this works the same as before, because in this switching method the old Space contents order is not rearranged.

Now, I DID have an initial problem with Spaces after 10.5.3 on the Mac/Mini (MB and MB Pro 17 were fine). After the update I lost Spaces (and little things like the Finder New Window, Dock, Accounts preferences pane and any way to start the Disk Utility). After restarting in single user mode, fsck, restart in verbose mode, safe mode (Shift-Login) I could get to the Disk Utility and ran a disk and permissions check (couldn't see anything obviously related was corrected). Restart one more time and it now is fine and working as described above. Which step was significant? I don't know, but I suspect the Disk Utility permissions check was probably the most important.

I'll happily believe that some people have some Spaces problems after this update 🙂

FWIW, as an ex-X user (fvwm, CDE, and that window manager on steroids "enlightenment"), I'm finding Spaces a little clunky. Not a lot. It is all down to application/task switching. I've tended to think of "this screen is where I do programming and this one is where I do accounts and this one is where I..." - and I may have the same application open in several desktops, sometimes with different windows. Preserving the active window is important for returning me to the mental context I was in when I left. Some of the switching methods seem to retain that model, and some don't - that's confusing and awkward.

Cheers, JeremyC.

This is weird. Apparantly some people have this problem, and others haven't.
I have this problem on my MacBook as well as my iMac, and neither of them have any fancy thirdparty extensions installed that could mess things up. Furthermore, I've tried creating a new account, and the problem persists.
Would be nice if we could narrow down under what circumstances this occurs, but I haven't seen any pattern so far - my MacBook has had Leopard installed from scratch, my iMac was upgraded from Tiger - both have had all upgrades installed. On my MacBook I tried the Combo Updater after seeing the problem, but still no luck 😟
Really frustrating - even more so when it seems some people don't have the problem 🙂

/ncbp

I seem to have the exact same issue as well after upgrading to 10.5.3 - I can switch between apps without any issues until I switch to a space that has Finder as the active app, after that Finder grabs the focus for ALL spaces. This is really annoying, I hope someone can find a hidden preference for overriding it.

I have this same issue also. Before the update if I was in PS and clicked on LR from the dock icon, LR opened in its own space. Now, the same action will only get me the LR toolbar and I'm still in the PS space. I only find this happening with LR's space. The other spaces I have set up (mail, Safari, etc.) seem to respond to clicking the dock icon okay.

I haven't thoroughly tested this yet but what seems to be happening with Spaces in 10.5.3 is Finder behaves like it's assigned to every space. Assign some other app (e.g. iChat) to every space, make it active, switch spaces (not applications), and that app will remain active.

That's a seriously frustrating usability regression to me, worse than whatever Spaces problems were fixed in 10.5.3. I want whatever app/window was last active in a space to be active again when I switch to that space (not an app) later. Otherwise, make Finder active.

I can confirm this.

I was never able to reproduce what the other people were complaining about. However, I have several always-up applications that are on a second monitor, and they are on every space, and that's probably why I never saw the issue before.

Yes, this does look like a regression.

Of course, it's kind of like a car with no motor having a flat tire.

I have installed the 10.5.3 update on two computers, an Intel MacBook Pro and a G5 PowerMac. Both exhibit the same problem, the finder grabs the focus when I switch to a space, by using ctrl+arrows, and pass an empty space or a space where the finder is active.

Some people in the thread have said that they don't have this problem. So in order to find out if this was something Apple intended, or if it's indeed a bug, I would appreciate if the people who say that they don't have this problem, could, just to be certain, test the following scenario:

1. Make four horizontal spaces.
2. Place a Safari window with Google in space 1 and 2, with the text cursor in the search field.
3. Place a finder window behind a text edit window in space 3 and put the text cursor in text edit.
4. Place a finder window in space four.
5. Use ctrl+left or right arrows to move between the spaces.

If I start in space 1, with the text cursor in the Google search field and move right, the cursor is blinking in the Google search field of space no. 2 as well. Then going to space 3, the text edit window stays in front of the finder window and the text cursor is blinking in the text edit window. I can go back and forth between these three spaces without any problems. So far so good. However, as soon as I go to the fourth space, with the single finder window, the finder now grabs the focus in all the spaces.

Please let us know if you don't have this behavior on 10.5.3. I would be very pleased to find out that this is a bug rather than a new "feature". Then there is hope! 🙂

Don_McCracken wrote:
Ithe finder grabs the focus when I switch to a space, by using ctrl+arrows, and pass an empty space or a space where the finder is active.

It's not just Finder. Any application that's assigned to all spaces will remain active when switching to a different space.

Another discovery is that making EyeTV active (e.g. with Command-Tab) while it's in a different space won't cause an automatic space switch unless its Controller palette window is hidden (and the new "When switching to an application, switch to a space with open windows for the application" Spaces preference is enabled). Still have to find another app with palette windows on my wife's Leopard system to check if the same thing happens in Spaces with it.

Wild hunch is that this influence palette windows now have on Spaces (assuming it's not just EyeTV) is somehow related to the other undesirable space switching change (the main topic of discussion). I have a feeling that something that got fixed in 10.5.3 went too far and is causing these other side effects.

So let's see if there ARE any settings differences for people who have this problem and people who don't. I definitely don't have the problem.

First of all, I DO have Finder set up in Spaces in my list of applications, to be visible in all Spaces. In System Preferences, Enable Spaces, Show Spaces in Menu Bar, and When switching to an application, switch to a space with open windows for the application all checked. You?

The issue is simple. Once Finder is selected, it stays that way even if you switch to a different space until you click on another app Then, if you switch to another space, other apps are selected as they are available. However, I don't see it as problematic since technically Finder is an app which is ALWAYS located in every space regardless of whatever else you're using. To me, this is common sense behaviour.

The problem as I see it is that Finder does not behave like other Apps - if you do a test with 4 spaces side by side, each of them with different Applications (one of them being Finder), and use the ctrl-arrow (or whatever modifier key you have configured) to switch between these spaces, whenever you cross the space with Finder as the active Application, it will stick. That doesn't happen for any other application. This makes it quite frustrating for people who expect consistency, because the behaviour when switching spaces now depends on what is in the spaces you "cross" along the way. In the example above, say you have the following applications open: Mail in space 1, Safari in space 2, Finder (or desktop) in space 3 and iTunes in space 4. If you are in space 1 with Mail active, and use ctrl-right-arrow to go to space 2 with Safari, Safari will be active. If you are in space 4 with iTunes active and use ctrl-left-arrow to go through space 3 to space 2, Finder will be active and not Safari. This is counterintuitive, and at least not what I expect.
/ncbp

But the thing is, it does NOT behave that way for all of us who have updated to 10.5.3. Why not? What is the difference?

ncbp wrote:
That doesn't happen for any other application.

It happens for me with any application that's assigned to all spaces, not just Finder.