Kernal Panic: Memory, Hard Drive or something else?

Hi there,

A couple of weeks ago I started experiencing random and sudden crashes in various applications (Safari most consistently, but also Mail, Logic Pro, Back Up) as well as strange behavior in iTunes on my 4 1/2 year old G5. I did the usual maintenance stuff (Disk Utility, Disk Warrior) and encountered some weirdness:

When trying to repair permissions after restarting from my Install CD and using Disk Utility, it would get about 1/3 of the way through and then pop up the error:

Disk Utility Internal Error
Disk Utility has lost its connection with the disk management tool and cannot continue. Please quit and relaunch Disk Utility.

I got this error each time I tried repairing permissions, so I tried it with Onyx from the system drive and it claimed to work without any errors.

I tried repairing the drive with Disk Utility, and at the end it said:

The Volume G5 was repaired successfully.
Repair attempted on 2 volumes
1 HFS volume repaired
1 volume COULD NOT be repaired

Weird. My drive is not partitioned, if that makes any difference. So I tried DiskWarrior and it didn't report any problems. But of course I continued to have these random crashes (not freezes, to be specific...the apps would just randomly Quit).

About 4 days ago I had my first kernal panic, with only Safari and Mail open. Tried DU and DW again with the same results. I had another kernal panic the next day, and then two the following day, at basically random times (not at start-up, just during what had been a regular day). I searched these forums for help and ended up getting Drive Genius 2 as well as the great info at The X Lab website.

According to the tests I ran with Drive Genius, there's no problem with my system drive, my second internal drive (used for recording audio to) or my external USB2.0 drive. I then ran another DU test on the main drive and it reported:

"Reserved fields in catalog record have incorrect data" [about 20 times in red]

"Invalid Leaf record count (it should be 124 instead of 245)
The Volume G5 was repaired successfully.
Repair attempted on 2 volumes
1 HFS volume repaired
1 volume could not be repaired"

So I tried the Apple Hardware Test to see if that would offer any clarity. I tried to run it in Loop Mode as suggested by X Lab, but that didn't work, so I ran it twice, with the results that everything passed each time EXCEPT the Memory (although, once the testing stopped at the memory failure, I couldn't figure out how to make it continue on and check the Video RAM, so I don't know if that's in good shape or not).

The Error Code for the first memory failure was:

2MEM/3/4: DIMM3/J14

For the second run-through it was:

2MEM/4/4: DIMM3/J14

I'm assuming that the cause of my woes is my memory, but I worry about DU always reporting that "1 volume could not be repaired." If memory is the culprit, do these error messages imply that it's the memory seated in slots 3 & 4, or how would I determine which ones are bad? In addition to the RAM that came with the G5, I installed 2 512mb cards four and a half years ago and all has been fine till now.

I was hoping maybe someone could offer some insight here. I would be thrilled if just replacing the memory would solve the issues, rather than having to get a new hard drive or at worst a whole new machine. Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.....

Thanks!

Oh, here's the log from my last kernal panic:

Wed Jun 11 14:01:59 2008


Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x0000000000000180 PC=0x00000000000A8A78
Latest crash info for cpu 0:
Exception state (sv=0x4FBBFC80)
PC=0x000A8A78; MSR=0x00001030; DAR=0x00000180; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x000A8A78; R1=0x370F3730; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x00034DBC 0x000329A0 0x00032E98 0x00026458 0x005007CC 0x00501B68
0x00502380 0x002BDA84 0x00A5C428 0x00A5BCFC 0x00A59F0C 0x00B6AAB4 0x00B77D04 0x00B77B30
0x00B65014 0x00B63ABC 0x00B63CF4 0x00B63E64 0x0003CA1C 0x000A9714
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.driver.AppleFCU(1.3.2b0)@0xa58000
com.apple.driver.PowerMac7 2PlatformPlugin(1.8.6f1)@0xb71000
dependency: com.apple.driver.IOPlatformPluginFamily(1.8.6f1)@0xb60000
com.apple.driver.IOPlatformPluginFamily(1.8.6f1)@0xb60000
com.apple.driver.AppleI2C(3.5.0d2)@0x4ff000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x4FBBFC80)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x4FA32780)
PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xFFFF0003): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x000A8204 0x000ABB80
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x4FBBFC80)
PC=0x000A8A78; MSR=0x00001030; DAR=0x00000180; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x000A8A78; R1=0x370F3730; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x00034DBC 0x000329A0 0x00032E98 0x00026458 0x005007CC 0x00501B68
0x00502380 0x002BDA84 0x00A5C428 0x00A5BCFC 0x00A59F0C 0x00B6AAB4 0x00B77D04 0x00B77B30
0x00B65014 0x00B63ABC 0x00B63CF4 0x00B63E64 0x0003CA1C 0x000A9714
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.driver.AppleFCU(1.3.2b0)@0xa58000
com.apple.driver.PowerMac7 2PlatformPlugin(1.8.6f1)@0xb71000
dependency: com.apple.driver.IOPlatformPluginFamily(1.8.6f1)@0xb60000
com.apple.driver.IOPlatformPluginFamily(1.8.6f1)@0xb60000
com
*******

G5 Dual 1.8, 2.5G RAM, Mac OS X (10.4.11), Logic Pro 8, Apogee Duet

Posted on Jun 12, 2008 8:51 AM

Reply
16 replies

Jun 12, 2008 3:53 PM in response to presto211

Hi-

Replacing the memory is necessary.

And, because of the bad memory (or possibly Drive Genius), there are fatal errors in the data on the hard drive, thus causing the kernel panics.
The panic report indicates the error occurs at "data access", with other details pointing to hard drive and/or I/O system involvement.

Replacement or removal of the memory is necessary, but repair or reformat of the hard drive is also required. If Disk Utility will not/can not repair the hard drive after 3-4 tries, then you will need DiskWarrior. DiskWarrior is the most adept drive repair software, and used routinely for maintenance, will keep the drives in perfect condition.
If, in the remote possibility, DiskWarrior cannot repair the hard drive, reformat will be necessary.

I would hesitate to continue to use Drive Genius for repair attemts. I quit using DG a couple years ago, as issues were too common. Since using only Disk Utility for formatting, etc., and DiskWarrior for directory maintenance/repair, my hard drive issues have been reduced to zero.

Jun 12, 2008 5:13 PM in response to japamac

Thanks, japamac. I've just run DiskWarrior on the drive and it says that "Errors, if any,... have been fixed." I'm assuming maybe then that the drive is okay and memory is the culprit? I imagine I'll reformat the drive within the next month anyway, but I'm in the middle of some paying audio jobs that I'd rather not interrupt with that now, if possible....

You said:
"The panic report indicates the error occurs at "data access", with other details pointing to hard drive and/or I/O system involvement."

Is it safe to assume that my troubles aren't caused by a dying logic board or some other hardware thing, now that DiskWarrior feels the drive is okay? Also, does the info I provided previously offer any insight into which memory sticks are failing? Since they came with a lifetime warranty, I'm guessing I can just call the manufacturer and tell them one or both of their sticks are bad? Sorry to be so questioning, but I've never been through any of this before.

Thanks also for the Drive Genius opinion. I had heard not great things about version 1, but had been recommended version 2 from a thread in another forum. Your advice about using just DU and DW is appreciated!

I'd be grateful for any more advice or insight you can offer.

Jun 12, 2008 5:37 PM in response to presto211

Also, does the info I provided previously offer any insight into which memory sticks are failing?


Yes, but you'll have to look at the motherboard to see which slot has the bad memory. Based on what you posted, "2MEM/3/4: DIMM3/J14" and "2MEM/4/4: DIMM3/J14" the DIMM in slot J14 has failed. If you look closely at the slots, you'll see "J14" next to one of them.

The RAM manufacturer may want you to return the DIMM in slot J14 as well as its matched counterpart. OWC wanted me to do that when I had a DIMM fail.

Jun 24, 2008 2:53 PM in response to presto211

Thanks to everyone for their help with this. The problem is somewhat solved. Here's an explanation:

I removed the bad memory and its corresponding 'partner' stick from the G5, which dropped my total installed RAM from 2.5GB to 1.5GB (each of these sticks was 512MB). The random crashes and kernal panics ceased immediately, leading me to believe that the bad RAM was indeed the culprit.

However - and perhaps I should post this as a separate topic? - when I installed the new RAM (which are two 1GB sticks as opposed to the old ones which were 512MB each) and started the computer, my G5 says the total installed RAM is now 2.5GB, when it should be 3.5GB. According to my System Profiler, the sticks I put in are 512MBs each instead of 1GB each as claimed. BUT...

...after restarting the computer this morning, the sticks both showed up as 1GB each and my total RAM shows as 3.5 GB. This is as it should be, but since this was weird I phoned the RAM seller to let them know in case this should be an issue somehow. I was told to run the computer pretty solidly for a week and keep them apprised. They were a little perplexed, as am I. *BUT AGAIN...*

...having just restarted the computer to work in Logic, the RAM is now showing up back down at 2.5 GBs installed with each stick being 512MBs again!!!

Anyone have any idea why the size of the RAM keeps changing as far as my computer can see? I've checked and all sticks are seated properly in their slots.

I should mention that these sticks are NOT in the slots where the previously bad memory was...my initial bad memory report showed that the bad stick was in the J14 slot, and when I removed that stick and its partner, I moved the next sticks in to fill those spots so there wouldn't be a gap between the installed memory sticks (i.e. I initially had 3 sets of memory, removed the bad ones from the middle sections, then moved the outside ones to the middle. The new sticks are now installed in the outside sets...the third of four possible sets, if that makes sense).

Thanks for any illumination, and sorry to be so confusing!

Jun 25, 2008 5:51 AM in response to DaddyPaycheck

Yes, DP. Sorry I couldn't explain it very well. Perhaps using the illustration on page 1 of that doc will clarify:

At the start of all this, the original factory-installed memory was a 256MB stick in each of the slots labeled 1. I installed a pair of 512MB sticks in each of the slots labeled 2. Later, I installed another pair of 512 in the slots labeled 3. This gave me a total of 2.5G RAM.

The bad stick was located in slot 2 of the top set (as I recall...whichever one was J14). I removed that stick and the corresponding one in slot 2 at the bottom, then moved the two sticks in both slots 3 to slots 2 so there wouldn't be a gap. This dropped me to 1.5G RAM and I experienced no more random crashes or kernal panics.

Once I had the new RAM (two sticks each labeled as 1G), I installed those in slots 3 at top & bottom, making what should be a total of 3.5G RAM. Upon starting the computer, 'About this Mac' showed that I only had 2.5G RAM, and System Profiler showed the RAM paired as 2 @ 256, 2 @ 512, and 2 @ 512. I initially assumed my new RAM was mislabeled, but it was too late in the evening to call the RAM seller.

The next morning when I started the computer, About this Mac showed a total of 3.5G RAM, and System Profiler now correctly showed the latest RAM sticks as 1G each. I called the seller to explain the situation as this seemed odd behavior.

Later that day, I re-started the computer as I was going to do some fairly intensive audio work in Logic, and that's when About this Mac went back to showing only 2.5G RAM, with System Profiler back to showing 2 sticks at 256 and 4 sticks at 512 total.

I hope that explains better...sorry for being so wordy. I should mention that even with all these morphing RAM amounts, I haven't had any issues with my computer...all's running well.

THanks so much for helping me get to the bottom of this!

Jun 25, 2008 5:59 AM in response to presto211

Thanks for taking the time to explain more clearly. I think I may have caught up.

Have you been getting all of this questionable RAM from the same source? Is it one of the more often suggested Mac retailers?

When the machine boots up and reports the wrong amount of RAM, does resetting the PRAM and/or NVRAM help?

Another cheap and easy fix that has been known to cure strange ills is the replacement of the PRAM battery.

Luck-

-DP

Jun 25, 2008 9:29 AM in response to DaddyPaycheck

Thanks for your patience, DP. I reset the PRAM by holding down Option Apple+PR keys until the third chime after restart. No change in RAM detection, but I expected to have to reset my date and perhaps a few other settings after doing this, so perhaps I did something wrong (since all seemed set as before)?

Also, one article I read ( http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1379) said that doing this would also reset the NVRAM, but other instructions I've seen say I need to hold Option Apple+OF and then enter some things in order to reset the NVRAM. Confused....

Jun 25, 2008 11:03 AM in response to presto211

A quick addendum:

Had to pop out for a few errands and decided to shut down computer while I was gone as an experiment. Came back, restarted and sure enough it's showing 3.5G RAM again, with the new sticks showing as 1Gs in System Profiler. It almost seems as though it alternates at each start-up...

Also, I purchased the RAM from 18004Memory.com. The initial sticks were put in over 3 years ago with no probs until the other week. I've been thoroughly pleased with their customer service in handling this situation.

Jul 5, 2008 3:07 PM in response to presto211

Hi presto211,

Same problem here on my old dual 2GHz PM.
I suspect one of the RAM slots is somehow damaged. In my case one of the inner ones.
I swapped pairs of sticks several times but Sistem Profiler keeps on telling me that the sticks located in the inner slots (DIMM0, DIMM1) are half their real size...
Hope I'm wrong. That would mean the motherboard is to be replaced.

Try this: when you see your 1GB RAM sticks "dropped" to 512MB in Sistem Profiler > Hardware click "Diagnostics" and look at the result.
This is what I read:

Power On Self-Test:

Last Run: 05/07/08 23:41
Result: Failed
Failure type: Memory
Memory slots: DIMM0/J11, DIMM1/J12



Let us know.

Regards

Paolo

Message was edited by: Paolo Rinarelli

Jul 5, 2008 4:43 PM in response to Paolo Rinarelli

Thanks, Paolo. I removed the recent questionable memory the other day and have sent the two sticks back for replacement so my System Profiler Diagnostics thing won't check that RAM. I ran it though just now, with this result:

Power On Self-Test:
Last Run: 7/5/08 6:50 PM
Result: Passed

I'm assuming (hoping) that means the motherboard may be okay?

Also, even after doing an erase & install on my system drive yesterday, it was still showing the "one volume okay, one volume could not be repaired" message in Disk Utility, so I bit the bullet and bought a replacement drive this morning. So far everything works great and the new drive passes all verifications. My one worry is that when I installed the drive I couldn't get the little "A" locking tab to rotate all the way back to its position. The drive is in securely and as far as it will go, but the corner of it sticks out just enough to keep that tab from turning down to where it's supposed to be. Since the computer isn't ever moved and all works okay (so far), should I have any concern about this?

Thanks to everyone for their help. Once the new RAM's here and installed I'll drag this thread out even further by reporting success or failure.

Jul 5, 2008 6:21 PM in response to presto211

presto211 wrote:
Thanks, Paolo. I removed the recent questionable memory the other day and have sent the two sticks back for replacement so my System Profiler Diagnostics thing won't check that RAM. I ran it though just now, with this result:

Power On Self-Test:
Last Run: 7/5/08 6:50 PM
Result: Passed

I'm assuming (hoping) that means the motherboard may be okay?


You'll know it when you install the new sticks in those slots. If the System profiler keeps telling your sticks are half their size...

Also, even after doing an erase & install on my system drive yesterday, it was still showing the "one volume okay, one volume could not be repaired" message in Disk Utility, so I bit the bullet and bought a replacement drive this morning. So far everything works great and the new drive passes all verifications.


I swapped my system drive too, clean install. Things seemed to be ok, but problems came back shortly after. I hope you're luckier than me...

My one worry is that when I installed the drive I couldn't get the little "A" locking tab to rotate all the way back to its position. The drive is in securely and as far as it will go, but the corner of it sticks out just enough to keep that tab from turning down to where it's supposed to be. Since the computer isn't ever moved and all works okay (so far), should I have any concern about this?


The "A" tab should secure the drive. Is the HD perfectly horizontal (the four Phillips screws in the upper slots)? If so try pushing it a little more inward. It should snap into place. But don't get too concerned about this: The drive will work anyway.

Keep us posted.

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Kernal Panic: Memory, Hard Drive or something else?

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