Control surfaces for audio mixing

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Level 1

100 points

Control surfaces for audio mixing

I am looking to invest in an inexpensive control surface for use with FCP and STP for audio mixing. I've been reading up on the Behringer BCF-2000, as it's only $200 (within my budget line), and has enough faders to do what I need.

But I can't find out if it'll work in FCP and STP.

The controllers that DO work do way more than I need and are hugely expensive.

Does anyone here have any info on using the Behringer BCF-2000 as a control surface for FCP audio mixing?

MacBookPro C2D 17", Mac OS X (10.4.11), 2GB RAM, XD PC Card

Posted on Jun 13, 2008 5:31 AM

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Answer 1

Jun 13, 2008 5:47 AM in response to Robin Grant

If it's a Mackie control surface it'll work...

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Answer 2

Robin Grant Author

Level 1

100 points

Jun 13, 2008 6:15 AM in response to  Certified

You must not have read my question.

Yes, I know that a $1200 Mackie will work. My budget doesn't have that available.

My question is specifically:

Does anyone know if the Behringer BCF2000 works, or is known to NOT work with FCP and/or STP?

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Answer 3

Jun 13, 2008 7:48 AM in response to Robin Grant

hi robin,

i have the behringer and i use it with protools LE and (rarely) FCP.

the behringer has several "emulation" modes - mackie HUI, logic being two of them. FCP requires that you use one of these for compatibility. (i forget which off the top of my head, but it is either the mackie HUI or logic).

it does work, but truth be told it is very limited. another very haphazard implimentation by apple. the biggest limitation is no true "latching" behavior which means you can write automation just fine, but if you want to rewrite it (ie adjust volume automation after you've already done a pass) you can't - you have to erase the automation and start again.

long story short i haven't used it with FCP in a long time. happy to answer any other questions you have.

R.

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Answer 4

Danny_boy

Level 4

1,125 points

Jun 13, 2008 1:57 PM in response to Robin Grant

I have one and use it in Logic Control mode, it works fine with FCP and STP. I really don't use STP, I've only tested to see that it works. You get level, pan, solo, mute, and transport controls and that's it. It works in Mackie Control mode aw well, but not in HUI mode. HUI mode emulates a Mackie Baby HUI, which uses a different protocol. HUI mode works best for Pro Tools.

Any control surface that supports the Mackie Control protocol or the Logic Control protocol will work with FCP and STP.

There are quirks with the BCF-2000, but I only use it for temp mixes while I'm cutting so I don't stress about it too much. I always send my audio to a mixer before I master my shows.

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Answer 5

Jun 13, 2008 2:13 PM in response to Robin Grant

I read your question, you must not of comprehended my answer.

FCP uses control surfaces that use the mackie protocol.
If your control surface in question uses the mackie protocol it'll work.

Just buy one from guitar center and try it out.
If it doesn't work return it within 30 days for full refund.

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Answer 6

Jun 13, 2008 2:24 PM in response to Robin Grant

You should also check out Frontier Designs - Alpha Track. I use it with FCP, STP and Pro-tools.

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Answer 7

Jun 14, 2008 3:48 AM in response to Robin Grant

As said above, the BCF will work fine with FCP & STP.

The problems associated with overwriting automation data is that whilst the BCF uses motorised faders to playback the automation, they are not touch sensitive. This means that you have to physically fight the motor to get them to drop into write mode when they are playing back data, and will not automatically drop out of write when you release the fader.

You can work around this by manually dropping in and out of write modes, but it does become frustrating.

I've just come back from a trade show and I've been playing with the new euphonix controller.

http://www.euphonix.com/artist/products/mc_control/

It's cheaper than the Mackie, and feels great to work with. It's faders are touch sensitive, as are all of the control knobs, and drops in and out of write automatically. As it supports the Mackie Control mode it works with FCP / STP without any problems, altho I haven't personally tested this yet.

They also make a fader only version which is cheaper, and to be honest and less you need the transport controls and the touch screen this would be fine for mixing in FCP / STP.

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Answer 8

Robin Grant Author

Level 1

100 points

Jun 14, 2008 7:02 AM in response to Robin Grant

OK, thanks everyone.

This is my first foray into control surfaces so I had no idea about the Mackie protocol thing. And thanks for the tip about the Guitar Center's refund policy!

It seems the Behringer item will work. Since I am specifically needing multiple faders, the alphatrack is out, and the Euphonix MC Mix is also too expensive.

It sounds like the Behringer will speed up my sound mixing, even if it has some issues. I am marking this as 'solved'.

Message was edited by: Robin Grant

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Answer 9

Nasos K.

Level 1

15 points

Jun 26, 2008 12:10 AM in response to Robin Grant

I have borrowed the Behringer controller from a friend to test it...And i cant make it work..I havent found any drivers...I plug it via usb...

It will help if i plug it to motu 828 via midi?

Any help ?

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Answer 10

Robin Grant Author

Level 1

100 points

Jul 29, 2008 12:32 PM in response to Robin Grant

So I bought a Behringer BCF2000. It does speak Mackie, if it's higher than firmware 1.06. Mine came with the latest firmware (1.10) right out of the box.

You need to power on the unit holding a particular button to get it to switch to the Mackie protocol.

Then go to Utilities and make sure the Audio Midi Setup sees it, and the computer is connected to it.

Then open FCP and go to Control Surfaces and activate it there.

It should work now.

Two problems with the emulation protocols:

1) it will not overwrite during a second pass. Once you've made a fader change on a clip, it only wants to playback the same levels. I can fight the fader motors and it will register the changes ONLY as long as I am moving the faders! Once I stop moving them, they revert to playback of the levels that were there after at that point.

2) the faders only go to +10 db, not the +12 db that FCP audio can do. If your track is already set to +12, the BCF2000 will not adjust them down to +10 - as long as you don't touch the faders. When you DO touch the faders, it immediately drops the level to +10.

The motors are noticeably audible. But the worst noise is when an audio track ends and the faders slam to the bottom - Whack! and then a new track comes on at +10 db or higher - Whack!

I am going to test now whether it is possible to custom program the BCF2000, instead of using a preset protocol. I suspect this will not be successful, but I won't know for sure until I try.

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