Recording Difficulty in Logic

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Level 2

460 points

Recording Difficulty in Logic

Hi.

I tried to record a live set of music. 16 chns. Sets of 40 minutes, but overall about 5 hours of material. Lots of info. I have a Mackie 1640 w/firewire running under 10.4.6. I kept getting "Disk too slow" errors. The recording just stopped. Even if I decreased my tracks down to 10, and stopped doing 24bit recording, the error was still prevalent.

I would think a 7800-rpm disk on a 400 firewire bus would be more than adequate bandwidth for my needs. Even IF the drive was fragmented and pretty full. I mean it's not that heavy of a data write burden. Or is it? Maybe cluttered disks drop off in performance exponentially as they fill up? 176 kB/s x10 is 17.6MB/sec, right? Would that be too much? A 400 7800 rpm HD usually can sustain data rates around 50/MB sec... but maybe the write speeds don't match that?

What would you recommend as a fix?

Should I get off the firewire bus for recording, just leave the firewire for the Mackie? Maybe try the "fastest" USB drive I can get? What about SATA on a MacBookPro. Any users making that work for 16-track and higher live recordings? Does it work well for you?

Also, anybody else messing with this Mackie mixer? Having any luck?

Is Logic just not the best tool for robust live recording? Should I consider another app? I guess I don't trust that "disk too slow" error. I'm wondering if it's some kind of software/hardware glitch. Like I said, I mean, 10 tracks of recording audio? I may be wrongheaded about this, but that shouldn't be a problem...

Should it?

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Posted on Jun 22, 2008 8:44 AM

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Answer 1

fuzzynormal Author

Level 2

460 points

Jun 22, 2008 11:01 AM in response to fuzzynormal

If anybody's keeping score, when it comes to questions in that post, I asked a baker's dozen. Sorry 'bout that.

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Answer 2

javyn

Level 1

0 points

Jun 22, 2008 12:23 PM in response to fuzzynormal

Ya man, I have no idea. 10 tracks should seem like nothing. I'm thinking there's something internal going on there.
I use a Mackie 1604 too but I bought it in 1990. LOL! No Firewire those days.
I just use it in conjunction with my patchbay. I love it though. I am going to buy the new version though and use it the same way. When I record I go straight from my Fireface into the MAC, unless I am doing vocals or acoustic guitars. I run them through a Focusrite Pre first. Guess you need to run it through the Mackie huh? Try to eliminate it if you can. Do you have dual sound cards to record over 8 tracks?

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Answer 3

fuzzynormal Author

Level 2

460 points

Jun 22, 2008 1:47 PM in response to javyn

It's a Mackie Onyx 1640. It has an installed firewire card option that allows me to (supposedly) record the 16chs of the board via firewire.

It doesn't work so good.

There's some sort of hardware or software glitch. Perhaps it's my hard drive, but I don't know, could be the board. I wish I had another 16track recorder to test with my HD's and Logic though, because I'm real suspicious it's the Mackie. Recording 16 tracks should only push the capabilities of the bandwidth to about 35%.

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Answer 4

javyn

Level 1

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Jun 22, 2008 1:59 PM in response to fuzzynormal

I guess what I was trying to say was Eliminate the board if you can?
Usually if you are recording multiple audio tracks you need 2 or more DAWS running together to record more than 8 tracks simultaneously. I only have 1 RME that gives me 8 ins/outs. If I want more I just ad another RME and I have 16, another 24 and so on. I usually record my drums in a pro studio and record everything else in my studio. If you are trying to do live stuff then you will need more tracks... I would think 24?

How many inputs does your soundcard have? Can you link up to another?

I just noticed that you are running a macbook. Not a lot of Ram. That might be your problem. You need a ton of it to run 10 or more tracks especially at long duration recordings. 🙂

Message was edited by: javyn

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Answer 5

fuzzynormal Author

Level 2

460 points

Jun 22, 2008 2:24 PM in response to javyn

Does RAM effect the writing speeds of data input when using Logic? What kind of processing in the app during a recording would be RAM intensive? Any? I'm not sure.

I wouldn't think that a deep pool of RAM would be needed for writing audio data to a disk, but maybe Logic needs it. If so, does anyone know the explanation of why this would be so? Seems like recoding would be the least RAM intensive process of the whole application.

BTW, here is the product I'm using:

http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx1640/

And when recording live I use 16 chns.

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Answer 6

javyn

Level 1

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Jun 22, 2008 2:36 PM in response to fuzzynormal

Well, I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I would think it's the RAM that is doing the grunt of the work when you have an overload like that. But I'm not sure. Maybe I have it all wrong. I noticed a huge difference when I threw in 4 gigs of RAM into my G5Q4.

Everyone needs maxed ram, especially if you are recording a lot of audio.

Good luck.

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Answer 7

fuzzynormal Author

Level 2

460 points

Jun 22, 2008 3:05 PM in response to javyn

I know RAM is great for using numerous plug-ins and such, but I've done multitrack recording with older computers with less RAM than I have now. Not with Logic though.

If RAM would help, then I'm willing to buy some. I'd like to know how RAM is utilized in Logic though. On that I'm not completely sure.

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Answer 8

atari800

Level 1

0 points

Jun 23, 2008 8:02 PM in response to fuzzynormal

Hi-

Couple things:

1. Never heard of a 7800 rpm disk -- yours is mostly likely 7200. No biggie, it's more than fast enough.

2. 176 kilobytes * 10 tracks = 1.7 megabytes per second, not 17 megabytes. Even at 16 tracks of 44.1 khz, 24-bit audio, you're looking at a few megabytes per second, maximum. Disk speed is probably not your problem.

3. I've recorded uncompressed scientific video at 30 megabytes per second over firewire, so firewire itself is not your problem either.

4. Disks do decrease in performance quite dramatically once they begin to fill up. This is well known among video editors, IT people, and other hardware geeks. How badly varies by model and manufacturer, but suffice it say that doing anything on a nearly full and fragmented disk is a bad idea. How big is the drive you're recording to and how full is it?

5. I recently recorded a half hour straight of a full band -- 10 channels of 44.1 khz, 24-bit audio -- over firewire right to the internal drive of a three-year-old 1.5 ghz Powerbook G4 with no issues. It was running Leopard and Logic Pro 8 and had 1.25 GB of RAM. On a MacBook Pro I highly doubt computing power is the problem, they are tanks.

Performance issues are always dicey to troubleshoot, but that should eliminate at least a few of your suspects!

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Answer 9

rawmusic

Level 1

19 points

Jun 24, 2008 10:28 AM in response to fuzzynormal

Hiya

I second the full up disk scenario - worth clearing out some stuff and trying again. I do location recording with a G4 on either an internal drive or external firewire and have had 16 tracks at once - MOTU 896 coupled to a Yamaha O1V96 and was able to play back 16 tracks and record 16 more without taxing the machine. I do know other musician colleagues that have had the Mackie and had no end of problems - clicks and pops suggesting speed issues - to the point where they sent them back or off loaded them on ebay.

It is always worth doing the obvious and checking driver updates, but also worth bringing your Mac OS up to date as there are various bits that get covered in the updates, and if you have up to date Mackie drivers but older Mac OS or Logic version etc. etc.

You could also play around with the input buffer in the audio setting page. Usually for me that helps when I am working with plugs and stuff when pops and cracks start creeping in, but might help with disk issues - i think there is also a larger disk buffer setting you can specify.

You certainly should not be having problems with that number of tracks on any recent-ish mac. See if you can borrow another 8 port interface to check out, if the software tweaks and updates don't work.

Good luck

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Answer 10

noeqplease

Level 4

3,589 points

Jun 24, 2008 2:42 PM in response to fuzzynormal

Hi,

This is what I've done, as a maximum.

ONE hard drive IBM IDE 7200 RPM, 80GB.

ONE Motu 2408 mkiii

TWO Motu 24 I/O

Total channels recorded live = 52 out of a max of 56 possible channels.

Here's a tip:

Start with an EMPTY hard drive.

Set your IO buffer to MAXIMUM.

Do NOT mouse around or touch the darn thing once recording has started.

Cheers

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Answer 11

noeqplease

Level 4

3,589 points

Jun 24, 2008 2:44 PM in response to fuzzynormal

Hi,

This is what I've done, as a maximum.

ONE hard drive IBM IDE 7200 RPM, 80GB.

ONE Motu 2408 mkiii

TWO Motu 24 I/O

Total channels recorded live = 52 out of a max of 56 possible channels.

Here's a tip:

Start with an EMPTY hard drive.

Set your IO buffer to MAXIMUM.

Do NOT mouse around or touch the darn thing once recording has started.

Cheers

Reply

Answer 12

noeqplease

Level 4

3,589 points

Jun 24, 2008 2:44 PM in response to fuzzynormal

Hi,

This is what I've done, as a maximum.

ONE hard drive IBM IDE 7200 RPM, 80GB.

ONE Motu 2408 mkiii

TWO Motu 24 I/O

Total channels recorded live = 52 out of a max of 56 possible channels.

Here's a tip:

Start with an EMPTY hard drive.

Set your IO buffer to MAXIMUM.

Do NOT mouse around or touch the darn thing once recording has started.

Cheers

Reply

Answer 13

fuzzynormal Author

Level 2

460 points

Jun 24, 2008 3:50 PM in response to noeqplease

Thanks for the advice. At this point I'm seriously eyeballing my Mackie 1640 and firewire interface hardware with a suspicious sideways gaze.

I mean, the thing isn't even recording 10 tracks without the "Too Slow" error... And that's with a set-up directly recommended by the techs at Mackie, so I'm skeptical that my gear actually works. And then other times it works fine for long stretches. Hmm.

Next step is to try this thing on a different Mac, different app, and see what goes down.

I now have a eSATA drive that's empty. If I get any hassles from this point I'll think the "Disk Too Slow" message from Logic is false and the blame goes even more squarely on Mackie.

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