I have a few DVD-RWs, recorded in a standalone DVD video recorder, that utilise the TinyUDF format. These discs will mount in OS X, but they are not recognised as DVD-Video. I get a little folder icon appear titled "TinyUDF Storage Volume", and when I open it, there's nothing inside. No Video_TS folder, nothing. I can't do anything at all with these discs in OS X, beyond erase them using Disk Utility.
If I reboot into Windows XP, though, everything's fine. The discs are immediately recognised as DVD-Video and they play as normal. I can also get at the Video_TS folder.
Is there a driver or anything that allows OS X to recognise DVDs in TinyUDF format? The workaround is to use Windows to copy the Video_TS folder to the hard drive so that I can then reboot into OS X and access it that way, but it seems crazy that I should have to do this given how video-friendly OS X usually is.
OS X does not read or write the UDF format. I would not use the UDF format. Try using standard ISO9660. If you use UDF be sure that the session is closed (not left open for additional sessions.) It's possible your Mac may read the discs if the sessions are closed.
I don't have any choice about the format; that particular DVD recorder only uses TinyUDF. You can't change it. The discs have all been finalised and play perfectly on normal DVD players and in Windows.
Malcolm - many thanks for that link. ReadDVD! will do exactly what I need. Unfortunately, it's a wee bit too expensive for me right now, so I'll stick with having to reboot into Windows to access the data on the discs.
It does seem crazy that OS X, normally so video-friendly, doesn't have native support for all UDF formats. If Windows can do it, why not Mac?
Kappy wrote:
OS X does not read or write the UDF format.
And yet it mounts and plays commercial video DVDs which are mastered in said format.
I suspect this is simply an issue with this standalone recorder's implementation of the UDF spec failing to see eye-to-eye with Apple's. I don't know if there's anything that can be done about it, but you might want to see if there's a FUSE plugin that will swallow it.
You'll notice though that Wikipedia mentions flavors of UDF. Until all the flavors of UDF are supported by all operating systems, and users want all these flavors in enough numbers, Apple obviously doesn't know what is needed, otherwise they would have incorporated all of the UDF flavors into their operating system.
a brody wrote:
You'll notice though that Wikipedia mentions flavors of UDF. Until all the flavors of UDF are supported by all operating systems, and users want all these flavors in enough numbers, Apple obviously doesn't know what is needed, otherwise they would have incorporated all of the UDF flavors into their operating system.
As a someone who has worked very closely with those responsible for both making and implementing such filesystem related decisions I feel comfortable in saying that you're obviously making this up as you go along. This is not an issue of ignorance on Apple's part, it's an issue of time management. Why should they bother wasting weeks worth of a grade 7 senior engineer's time just because some oddball DVD player manufacturer decided to either add some fancy extensions to the UDF specification or ignore it entirely? The answer is that they shouldn't because going off spec was that manufacturer's decision, not Apple's.
Same thing happened way back when Philips and company were having trouble sticking to the ATAPI spec; their drives weren't supported not because support was impossible, but because it wasn't Apple's problem that Philips couldn't do anything right. The number of special cases in third party CD driver code that sought to fill in the gaps in Apple's support grew so numerous as to become completely unmaintainable, and clearly none of those companies are around anymore.
The point is of course that UDF proper has been supported for years, so saying Apple doesn't support UDF because people aren't filing enough feature requests is plainly silly.
No it isn't plain silly. Supply and demand. If someone holds stock options to your head, will you budge? UDF has not received enough attention in the Mac movie production industry for Apple to make it a priority to include every last flavor of it in the operating system support. It really doesn't matter. A feature not implemented says a feature not demanded. Whatever the upper management may want to include may not be there, simply because demand hasn't been high enough. Apple doesn't just include frivolous operating system features because it desires to do so to make our lives simpler. A small set of hardcore people want certain file systems because they have unique equipment that needs it. Whether it gets attention is purely a function of supply and demand.
Guess what was the first noticeable change between Mac OS X public beta and Mac OS X 10.0? The Apple menu regained functionality. It had no function at one point. Apple could have discarded it entirely, but instead decided to keep it at least somewhat functional. Obviously enough users desired it. On the other hand it let companies like
Searchware solutions fill in the gap for features such as Print Window which it never migrated from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. Apple though did incorporate a decent application switcher in Mac OS X, when in previous operating systems it wasn't there. Apple gives and taketh certain features to allow third party developers the chance to develop a better alternative for those who need features that are otherwise excessive for others. I'm not saying this is their policy, but I'm saying it is apparent from the result of years of watching feature growth in the operating system. The point is, the feedback pages, and the bug reporter pages are there for you to ask for features. If you don't use them, Apple will likely have no reason to implement your wishes. They have no ability to read anyone's mind.
Do DVDs mastered with devices that write TinyUDF have a VIDEO_TS directory? YES
Why can't I see the mounted volume when I insert the disk? BECAUSE APPLE WAS CLUELESS WHEN THEY IMPLEMENTED AUTOFS SUPPORT FOR THE TINYUDF FILESYSTEM
Is there a workaround that doesn't risk damaging OSX? YES
Explanation:
When you insert optical media in the Mac, it automounts it under /Volumes/[something]. When you insert a TinyUDF DVD, it automounts it as root without read permissions, e.g:
So to get at the data, the easiest way is to use "terminal" and copy the data to your desktop. First, launch "Utilities / terminal". Then type "mount" to show what all your active mounts are, e.g:
You'll note that the mount point is "/Volumes/StorageLabs\ TinyUDF\ Volume" (note where I've placed the backslashes in the above example. You'll need them if the volume name has spaces in it. Translation: put a backslash before a "space" character... it is important).
Next, get a directory listing of the TinyUDF volume to show whether whatever wrote it thought it was writing a DVD. We'll use the "sudo ls -l" command:
Mac:~ zaphod$ sudo ls -l /Volumes/StorageLabs\ TinyUDF\ Volume/
Password:<enter your root/admin password>
Next, we're going to use "sudo cp -R" to copy the VIDEO_TS directory to our desktop (note, it's going to still be owned by "root" meaning we can't get at it, but we'll tackle that in the step that follows this one). Note, again, the backslashes if needed:
After you type this, you'll notice a VIDEO_TS folder on your desktop. This command instructs OSX to copy "recursively" the VIDEO_TS folder to your desktop.
May as well go grab a can of Jolt and some BBQ ribs and enjoy. If you have a full-length movie, the cp can take a while. By the way, make sure you have enough space on your hard drive. Oh, too late?
After it has copied, you'll notice a "VIDEO_TS" folder on your desktop, but if you click on it, you'll be told you don't have sufficient access privileges. The following command fixes that:
sudo chmod -R 777 ~/Desktop/VIDEO_TS/
WHEN YOU DO THIS COMMAND, DOUBLE CHECK IT. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE NO SPACES IN THE PATH (i.e. everything after the "~") AND END IT WITH A "/".
Sub-rant: [Look, the next 10 posts are going to be from fellow Unix geeks who want to debate this point. If you're a Unix geek, you do it the way you want to. I'm trying to show folks how to do it
safely without chmod'ing things they don't want to chmod. The 'chmod' command (and other commands) can be very dangerous, and Unix will happily let you destroy your machine without complaining. So always be careful and double-check your sh commands before you hit that "enter" key.]
After you do this command, you'll notice that you have access to the folder. You can now use [insert favorite DVD/media editor] to [do whatever you want to do to it].
Since you seem to know the cause and the workaround (I have no UDF volumes to test your solution), I suggest posting the solution to
http://bugreporter.apple.com/
The more people who desire the solution, the more likely Apple will know what to do.
Also please read the terms of use on the right. No ranting allowed. This is a user to user forum, and shouting with ALL UPPERCASE is typically considered rude on the internet.
