Adding two 320GB internal HDs with existing 20GB HD

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Level 1

8 points

Adding two 320GB internal HDs with existing 20GB HD

Friends: I want to add 2 new Western Digital (320GB each) internal HDs to my 400mhz G4 (10.3.9 OS) CRT model with the existing original 20GB HD. Apple manual says two new extra internal drives can be installed in addition to original HD. I installed an Acard ATA-133 (Model AEC-6280M) PCI card to utilize capacity above 128GB, which the first new HD does. I left the original jumpers for the original 20GB drive in original positions (the 2 jumpers are in what I guess is the master position, also an (older) WD model) and installed the first new drive jumpered as a slave in the bracket above original HD in the rear bay. All is well so far. The first new drive shows full 320GB capacity. The 2nd new drive is initialized (in a separate procedure due to continuing difficulties try to recognize it) and I installed it next to the original and 1st new HD. I left it jumpered as a slave and attached the multi-colored attachment ribbon from it to the other available receptacle on the PCI card, since it is the only receptacle left on the card, in order to (hopefully) utilize the full 320GB capacity.

Now, when I attempt to boot, the unit starts, but eventually goes to the forbidden sign as the cursor continues to spin, forever (so it seems). I have to disconnect the power at rear to stop.

After reading through 30 pages of posts, I have tried many, many combinations of the new HDs, bay locations, ribbon connections, power cable, PMU button pushes (but no PRAM keyboard procedure) and HD jumpers that users have suggested.

Both of the new HDs appear to be identical units except one was manufactured about a year ago and the other manufactured relatively recently.

I am probably missing something obvious, because in my 15 years as an owner and user of Mac systems, they are intuitively easy to set up, use and modify.

If nothing works, I will probably remove the original 20gb HD and use only the 2 new HDs. (Ugh, I'm not looking forward to reinstalling OS 9.2 and 10.3.9 all over again).

Am I missing something? Thanks

G4 400mz CRT, Mac OS X (10.3.x)

Posted on Jul 6, 2008 5:44 PM

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Answer 1

japamac

Level 7

24,400 points

Jul 6, 2008 9:41 PM in response to carlsagan2nd

Hi-

Welcome to Discussions!
Your machine description makes it unclear as to what model of G4 it is that you have. This document should help to better ID the machine. Please post with the correct model.

For the time being, this is how to proceed with a normal G4 tower.
Leave the 20GB drive jumpered as Master, connected to the internal bus (motherboard) connector, using the end connector of the original IDE ribbon.
As for the two 320GB drives, jumper one Master, and one Slave. Confirm the jumper positions for EIDE drives using this document. Using one three connector ribbon, connect the two drives, master end connector, slave middle connector, to the controller card.
Alternatively, jumper each as Master, and use a separate IDE ribbon for each. Connect each drive to the end connector of the IDE ribbon, and connect one drive to each of the two connectors on the controller card.

Try the above, and see how you fare.....

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Answer 2

carlsagan2nd Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 7, 2008 10:40 AM in response to carlsagan2nd

It is a M5183 with AGP Graphics.

I put the original 20GB HD ribbon back to the motherboard. I jumpered one new HD as master and the 2nd new HD as slave, connected a separate ribbon appropriately for master and slave to them and then connected the long end of the ribbon to the new PCI card. I connected the power cables to all HDs. Alas, as before, the unit will not even start to boot, similar to previous experiences. When I push the start button, there is a momentary energization of the fan and motherboard monitor light, but the power shuts right off.

A curious note, in order to get back online, I disconnected only the ribbon connection at the PCI card for the new HDs, but kept the power connectors to the new HDs. The machine still would not power up. After disconnecting the power plugs to the new HDs, I boot up fine. Evidently, both the ribbon connections and power connections to the new HDs must be disconnected for the original HD to boot, which it now does. Suggestions? Thanks

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Answer 3

carlsagan2nd Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 7, 2008 10:48 AM in response to carlsagan2nd

My apologies, I have not yet tried your alternative to separately jumper each HD as master and connect to the card with a 3rd separate ribbon cable. Stay tuned.

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Answer 4

carlsagan2nd Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 7, 2008 11:48 AM in response to carlsagan2nd

I have separately jumpered both new HDs as masters and used separate ribbons from each to the PCI card, in addition to the original HD being separately jumpered as master and ribboned to the motherboard. Same results, momentary power, but immediate power cutoff. Suggestions? Thanks.

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Answer 5

japamac

Level 7

24,400 points

Jul 7, 2008 6:18 PM in response to carlsagan2nd

Hi-

Try the PCI card in a different slot.
Check your power connectors for frayed/bare wires.
Try different power connectors.
Try one drive at a time.
The whole problem could be one drive is bad,,,,,

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Answer 6

carlsagan2nd Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 10, 2008 7:44 PM in response to carlsagan2nd

Thanks for the feedback japamac. Despite all of the excellent suggestions, I was unable to see all 3 drives at once, so I removed the 20gb drive and used the two new 320gb drives, which overall, work well. One big downside, however, is that the new WD hard drives do not boot with or recognize OS 9, which is a biggie for me due to 10 years worth of work that must continue to reside on my G3 with the scads of programs that now work only on my old G3, which has never had a serious problem in 10 years of continuous use. (Hopefully, my Mac outlasts me). Planned obsolesence is forcing this Classic user out.

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Answer 7

Jul 12, 2008 2:25 PM in response to carlsagan2nd

Having gone through something similar, I believe you can partition one of the new drives into two sections, thus permitting OS 9 to operate from a volume under 190 GB, which seems to be the limit for that OS.

Others on this forum, including Japamac, will most likely provide details

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Answer 8

japamac

Level 7

24,400 points

Jul 12, 2008 5:56 PM in response to carlsagan2nd

As for the OS 9 problem, it could be that the system folder needs reblessed.
Follow the instructions under "Steps for Mac OS 8 and Mac OS 9" in This Article.

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Answer 9

carlsagan2nd Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 14, 2008 5:00 PM in response to carlsagan2nd

Unbelievable! One of the most basic wiring connections was a very simple, but notoriously effective situation that caused me hours upon hours of frustration until very close inspection and a process of elimination brought success!

First the good news. I can see all 3 HDs on the desktop. Also, I can switch from OS 9.2 on the original HD which has lots of my old, but perfectly functional applications and the 2 new HDs that have a huge increase of capacity and OS 10.3.9. I have the two new 320GB HDs stacked on each other and ribboned to the new PCI card with the botton one as master and the top one as slave. I have the original 20GB now by itself on the left side of the 2 new HDs and have it ribboned as a master to the motherboard in its original slot.

Now the cause of the bad news. When I bought the new PCI card to allow me to utilize the entire 320GB of each new HD, there was a power supply adapter cordset that had one plug that connected to one of the existing power connectors, then "T-ed" to 2 other power connectors for the new HDs.

To make a long story short, one of the 4 pinned power connectors for one of the HDs had their small tabs that lock the pins into place for pin number 2,3 and 4, bent sideways so that 2,3 and 4 were all shorted to each other. They were very hard to see, in fact I looked at them closely several times, but did not see that all three pins were contacting each other. Even when I used a continuity checker to check Number 1 pin position on all three connectors,it showed I had continuity for each pin #1, 2, 3 and 4. Thing is, if I had checked pin 2 against #3 or #4 pin, I would have been alerted that something wasn't right, because it would have showed continuity, when it shouldn't. Apparently, when the connector was first assembled at the factory, the multiple shorts for that one connector were not inspected nor tested.

So after many frustrating combinations of connections, reboots and other wear and tear that my Mac should not have had to endure, it is a testament to its legacy, Macs are the best! By the way japamac, you should be paid by Apple, if you aren't, because you have helped many of us with your Macpertise! Also, thanks everyone else for your excellent insights into our superior Macs!

What can we learn from such an experience? I guess, look for the obvious, because usually the answer to your question is right in front of you. If that fails, seek outside help.

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