Need To Purchase Color Grading Monitor Today. Please Help

Question

Need To Purchase Color Grading Monitor Today. Please Help

I've been color-correcting via the 3-Way plugin in FCP for years. At SD, normally DV, resolution via Firewire out to a color, CRT broadcast monitor. So now I'm color grading with Apple Color. Love it. But, I need a new output device and monitor. I say I need a new monitor b/c I now work (sometimes) at HD resolution. It's not often but I do. So my question are:

• Overall which card and monitor combo should I get?
• Should I stick with a SD CRT since most of my work is SD?
• And, if I do, can I still color-correct HD projects with it when the time comes?
• Should I do some type of HD monitor set-up?

Right now I'm working with the following:

• Dual 3Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon G5 Tower
• 8GB RAM
• NVIDIA GeForce 7300GT
• 1 Apple Cinema Display and 1 Wacom Cintiq display

Dual Quad G5, Mac OS X (10.4.6)

Posted on Jul 18, 2008 7:41 AM

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Answer 1

Zebulun

Level 5

6,749 points

Jul 18, 2008 9:06 AM in response to Jonathan Healey1

Do you want the cheap, minimal recommendation or the recommendation that works?

Aja Kona LHe with a Sony PVM-__L5 or PVM __M4U series crt. Both of those monitors have SMPTE C phosphors and have 800+ lines of resolution. They can be found on eBay. Another crt I highly recommend are the Ikegami TM-__80 series. If you can find an Ikegami HTM crt then, then you're covered for both SD and HD monitoring.

I recommend the crt type monitor as the LHe does a fine job of downconverting HD to SD on the fly and it's what I use at home for any DVCPRO HD work I do as well as lately, transcoded r3d files into ProRes.

Plus, the Aja card just works very well with Color. It works. I can't say the same about your lackluster nVideo graphics card. You may want to upgrade to the new ATI 3870.

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Answer 2

Jul 18, 2008 11:04 AM in response to Zebulun

That Aja card seems awfully expensive ($1.5K). Our budget probably won't permit something like that. I can, however, certainly add another graphics card to my machine and keep the nVideo one I have to power the dual monitors I'm already using.

I guess what I need to know is this. If I go with an SD, CRT monitor am I completely screwed from color-correcting HD content. In other words, can Color still output the HD content to an SD display and allow me to color-correct (somehow)?

I'm a stickler for CRT and, right now, my company probably cannot afford a HD CRT monitor. And, I think buying and LCD HD monitor to color-correct would be a mistake since it wouldn't work well for the SD stuff.

What do others think?

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Answer 3

Zebulun

Level 5

6,749 points

Jul 18, 2008 12:19 PM in response to Jonathan Healey1

You need to do your research. Adding another graphics card to your machine WILL bring Color to it's knees rendering it inoperable.

The LHe will downconvert HD to SD on the fly and it's what I use. Component analog into my PVM.

I think you would be completely myopic if you discounted the LHe based upon price considering what it gives and the fact that it WORKS right out of the box with Apple products, COLOR, and Adobe software.

I'm sure others will pipe up with cheaper, less reliable solutions.

Good luck.

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Answer 4

Jul 21, 2008 2:32 PM in response to Jonathan Healey1

I have been using a Matrox MXO combined with an Apple 23" Cinema and have been getting great results. As long as you calibrate it with the provided software it gets pretty close to results achieved on much more expensive kit.

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Answer 5

Jul 21, 2008 8:46 PM in response to Jonathan Healey1

Jonathan Healey wrote:
I guess what I need to know is this. If I go with an SD, CRT monitor am I completely screwed from color-correcting HD content. In other words, can Color still output the HD content to an SD display and allow me to color-correct (somehow)?

The PVM20L5 (if you can find it) switches to HD on the component inputs.

- pi

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Answer 6

Jul 23, 2008 4:29 PM in response to Patrick Inhofer

Thanks for the tip. As this project has moved along I have more specifics and maybe someone can help me determine the best workflow and purchases/rentals.

• Talent for commercial was videotaped at 1920x1080, 23.98fps XDCAM EX 1080p24
• Output for commercial is SD broadcast (I'm guessing 720x486), letterbox
• As far as output compression I'm open to anything and looking for suggestions
• Motion graphics created at 720x486, After Effects, Lossless

I would like to color-correct the talent (and it needs quite a bit of it) in Apple Color. Right now, we do not have a broadcast monitor or video card (we do mostly Internet video). What workflow would you do and what monitor card would buy/rent? Is it possible to color-correct this in SD via a GFX card and SD monitor? Would it be better to rent a HD monitor and card and color-correct in the HD color space and then down convert?

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Answer 7

Jul 23, 2008 9:36 PM in response to Jonathan Healey1

if your final output is sd, monitor sd. it's in a different color space than hd (601 vs 709). you cannot get around getting a aja or decklink card (the decklink extreme HD is now only $995, so cost should not be an issue - that is ridiculously cheap)
the sony pvm 20 L5 is a great crt if you can find a good one, but not likely since they stopped making them a few years ago. we added the panasonic professional 50" plasmas as client monitors to our pvm 20's as client monitors and they are really great for the price in hd and even sd.
but not like having a crt. it's tough time to be investing in sd monitors now as 2/09 is the digital broadcast switchover and most viewers will be on lcd.
go to creativecow.net and search the color forum and you will find way more comments about this than you will ever want to read!
but really - get a video card a al aja or decklink...

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Answer 8

Jul 24, 2008 7:16 AM in response to restarter2

OK. So how does color-correction work say if I buy one of the cards and an SD monitor. Can I bring the 1080 stuff in Color and output it on via the card onto an SD monitor and get good results or is that not even possible.

Thanks for all the help thus far!

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Answer 9

JP Owens

Level 4

2,015 points

Jul 24, 2008 7:37 AM in response to Jonathan Healey1

Can I bring the 1080 stuff in Color and output it on via the card onto an SD monitor and get good results

Thats the general idea as the Kona3 card handles the 1080 -->525 conversion with a 709-->601 gamma conversion.

If thats all you can afford, then thats all you can expect.

jPo

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Answer 10

Jul 24, 2008 8:08 AM in response to JP Owens

OK. Starting to understand the workflow. Sorry to say I'm still working in the SD environment due to cost constraints. Ugh. Well... Let me ask one more question. Worst case scenario (I guess) would be to down convert the HD footage to SD and color-correct in FCP via a Firewire and a SD CRT monitor. Correct? And if that's the case how would you do the the down conversion before the color-correction?

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Answer 11

Zebulun

Level 5

6,749 points

Jul 24, 2008 8:15 AM in response to Jonathan Healey1

Jonathon,

Did you not read my very post to your question? I answered this question for you. Look above, you'll see I tell you that the Kona LHe downconverts hd on the fly and I view it through component analong in my Sony PVM. I don't mind helping but you've asked this question 3 times now.

Worst case scenario (I guess) would be to down convert the HD footage to SD and color-correct in FCP via a Firewire and a SD CRT monitor. Correct? And if that's the case how would you do the the down conversion before the color-correction?

Yes, that is a very worst case scenario and one you should avoid. Personally, shooting hd to deliver in sd makes no sense to me at all. Darn near every show I've worked on this year is acquired in hd and then broadcast in sd and we use hardware downconverters that are horrendously expensive and yet the product is marginal.

If this is the workflow you're going to use, you'll want to use Compressor to change formats but geez, why on earth would you do this when a Kona LHe will do everything you want it to, right out of the box.

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Answer 12

JP Owens

Level 4

2,015 points

Jul 24, 2008 9:00 AM in response to Jonathan Healey1

What you're suggesting is a chain of compromises representing the triumph of technology over common sense. You're probably hoping for a "Nicole Kidman" result, but the chances are more likely that what you've going to get is one of the early attempts at cloning the Alien/Ripley.

If you must remain in SD to offset your inability to see or judge native HD, then down-conversion should probably have happened at ingest. I gather as you have an edited timeline, it might be time to do a Media Manage recompressing to SD, DV or uncompressed, your choice depending on storage, bandwidth, etc.

I can't bring myself to buy into the budget constraint argument if you want to achieve results at a higher level. Zircons ain't diamonds, hamburger isn't filet. If you're working on "disposable" media with no budget, consider that it might not really matter. Harsh or realistic?

Cordially,

jPo

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Answer 13

Jul 24, 2008 10:48 AM in response to JP Owens

I did not see this project from beginning to end unfortunately. I'm merely the editor they gave all these assets to. The client had the content shot in HD per the recommendation of the their agency; however, another contractor did the motion graphics at SD. When I asked the client what their specs were for broadcast they said SD so I'm trying to do the best with what I have.I'm going to do one of the following:

• Buy an Aja video card and SD broadcast monitor. Color correct my HD content in HD color space via Color but monitor it on the TV at SD through the Aja down conversion. Then bring those clips back into FCP and place in an SD timeline with the motion graphics

Or

• Media manage my content and recompress to SD (Or use Compressor) and color-correct via FCP in SD through Firewire to a monitor

I'm going to try for the former since Color is such a great application. I wish it worked via Firewire. Then it this would be a non-issue.

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Answer 14

Zebulun

Level 5

6,749 points

Jul 24, 2008 11:30 AM in response to Jonathan Healey1

I wish it worked via Firewire. Then it this would be a non-issue.

Firewire is fine for data delivery but for video, it's junk. I hope they never port Color to preview externally via firewire. Once you see component or sdi from a Kona/Blackmagic card, you'll never want to view firewire video again.

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Answer 15

Jul 24, 2008 12:12 PM in response to Jonathan Healey1

The Cin-tal broadcast monitor is the best outboard monitor for color grading available. It allows you to enable custom LUT for grading in multiple environments and it has built in scopes.

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