Logic and vocal effects

RMG_Music wrote:
Hi, new to the logic environ having used PT and GB. I want to know how to get the "Cher" (Believe) type vocal effect in Logic. In GB, there is a tuner function and you can get a similar effect. I've been playing around with some of Logics tuning effects but I can't seem to figure it out. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

No. Absolutely not.

Please use a different effect, as this one has been used to DEATH. Can't you be more creative? Or is your singer demented?

PS Pitch correction software was NOT ever used for the Cher effect. You are indeed barking up the wrong tree, as it were. Ever hear of a Vocoder???

Sorry noeq.... but that was not a vocoder but only a pitch correction software (I don't remember if it was Melodyne or AutoTune...). 🙂


Before to see (or better to hear) one of those software in action (used in the wrong way) I had your same idea about the vocoder....


cheers

rob

PS Pitch correction software was NOT ever used for the Cher effect.
You are indeed barking up the wrong tree, as it were. Ever hear of a Vocoder???

Please God, not this again. Please help me to banish "It was Autotune", "No it was a vocoder" threads from the Internet forever. And please direct the OP to Logic's "Pitch Correction" plugin, which is the functional equivalent of Autotune's automatic mode, which was what was used for the pitch shift on the original, in addition to a vocoder, which was used for the tone of the vocal. Please also help the OP realise that using this effect is not cool, trendy or modern, and will most likely make his music feel dated, tired and lacking in creativity, and his listeners go "Oh, yeah, like you've done that Cher thing, like a million other people, it's not exactly cool anymore is it, like". And please let any "System Overload" alert boxes magically disappear from everyone suffering from that cursed affliction. Blessed be Thy Logic-Users, and we say a prayer for the heathens forced to bend to the whims of Other Lesser DAWs in their ignorance of The One True Way.

Amen (break).

clangwork wrote:
Sorry noeq.... but that was not a vocoder but only a pitch correction software (I don't remember if it was Melodyne or AutoTune...). 🙂


Before to see (or better to hear) one of those software in action (used in the wrong way) I had your same idea about the vocoder....


cheers

rob

Hi Rob.

I read about how they engineers did it. Auto-tune and Melodyne did not even exist then.

This is because the original audio engineers had done this on a 70's album, and Cher decided to hire them to do her vocal, so it would sound the same as said 70's album.

You can google the cher effect, but I do not know if that article is still up there.

There was a mention of using two to three devices, including a vocoder-like giutar footpedal (an electroharmonix guitar synth) but I do not remember the rest. It was obscure...and no pitch correction used. And it was a pain to get done, by hand, phrase by phrase.

If you d not beleive me, trry using the Auto-Tune... BUT use it, and then compare it to the Cher song itself.

You'll be amazed how different they sound. So many people "think" they hear things, when in fact they are only hearing things... if you knwo what I mean. In other words the memory of a sound in one's brain rarely matches the actual sound.

Cheers

Take it easy, Bee Jay..... I will not fall into the trap and neither noeq will do 😉

I don't care if it was a vocoder or a hoover or anything else so everything it's fine for me!!!
I won't try to create that effect, for sure (LOL)


cheers

rob

Auto-tune and Melodyne did not even exist then.

Melodyne did not. Autotune was released in 1997. Believe was released in 1998. Which used autotune - the shiny new toy they had for "fixing" Cher's vocals, which they rather embarrassingly couldn't admit to in an interview (you mean Cher can't sing in tune??!!), so they made up something vaguely plausible involving vocoders, which they were using anyway.

Here's a clue - vocoders don't change pitch of signals. The only way you get a pitch change with a vocoder, is if your carrier is a musical instrument changing pitch, with the voice as a modulator (you can't do it the other way around, because the modulator doesn't change the pitch of the vocal carrier). However, Cher's vocal clearly isn't this (if you're familiar with vocoders), and sounds exactly like, in pitch terms, when you use Autotune with the retune speed set to maximum. Yes there is other stuff in there too, the vocal on those parts does have a vocoder-ish quality, but that's because they were also using this to change the tonalty of the voice.

Cr.ap, you suckered me right in. I must repent at once... ( ! )

You'll be amazed how different they sound. So many people "think" they hear
things, when in fact they are only hearing things... if you knwo what I mean.
In other words the memory of a sound in one's brain rarely matches the actual sound.

True enough. Goes for you too, Nick... 😉

Edit: Oh, and look at the SOS update to their article which they had to correct:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/articles/tracks661.htm

"STOP PRESS!! Cher's 'Believe' (Dec 1998) was the first commercial recording to feature the audible side-effects of Antares Auto-tune software used as a deliberate creative effect. The (now) highly recognisable tonal mangling occurs when the pitch correction speed is set too fast for the audio that it is processing and it became one of the most over-used production effects of the following years.
In February 1999, when this Sound On Sound article was published, the producers of this recording were apparently so keen to maintain their 'trade secret' process that they were willing to attribute the effect to the (then) recently-released Digitech Talker vocoder pedal. As most people are now all-too familiar with the 'Cher effect', as it became known, we have maintained the article in its original form as an interesting historical footnote."

Seriously, we're done here. 🙂

The Cher effect just appeared after some plastic surgery had been performed on her face. It got worse after some plastic surgery on her boobs - so if you want your singer or yourself to sound like cher save some money and refurnish your body, it'll sound worse than any Pug In available on the market.

RMG....ever get the question answered?....I was wondering how Peter Frampton did vocoder effects on "Frampton Comes Alive" in 1976?

As I said in my (vaguely humorous) post above:

"And please direct the OP to Logic's "Pitch Correction" plugin, which is the functional equivalent of Autotune's automatic mode, which was what was used for the pitch shift on the original"

So yes, he did get his answer...

eastcoastscott wrote:
RMG....ever get the question answered?....I was wondering how Peter Frampton did vocoder effects on "Frampton Comes Alive" in 1976?

Heil Talk box. Plus an old vocoder... I do not remember which one. Maybe a Moog Modular...