New Mac owner with recurring wi-fi problems

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Level 1

2 points

New Mac owner with recurring wi-fi problems

Hi all!

I've finally taken the plunge and got myself a MacBook Pro in the last week of July - very happy with it, it's already gone on a two week Mediterranean holiday with me and performed very well - the battery life on normal usage is something else!

The one recurring problem I have with it is Wi-Fi connectivity.

I have a BT Homehub 1.5 (s/w version 6.2.6E, 802.11b/g) - not the brand new black one which is draft-n capable - the slightly smaller iteration of the original Homehub. It is WPA-PSK secured.

We have three computers and two consoles in the house that all use this wireless network: a four year old Sony Vaio XP SP3 desktop (my other half's PC), a self built Windows Vista Ultimate PC, a Wii, a PSP and this MacBook.

The MacBook is Bootcamped with XP SP3. Under this OS, the wi-fi connection is rock solid. Under OSX, every two to five minutes or so the AirPort indicator drops away to 1 bar or nothing. If I click on the indicator to force the re-scan, it picks up the connection almsot instantaneously. It doesn't matter where in the house I am with the laptop - the furthest point from the hub or sitting right next to it with nothing between myself and it - the behaviour is the same.

(In fact, as I write this, I have had to click the Airport control several times to maintain the connection)

I have looked through the forums and have tried a couple of the solutions mentioned: manually selecting a channel on the Homehub (9-11 are recommended apparently, but I have tried them all) un-hiding the SSID, manually configuring IPv4 and disabling IPv6 in Network Preferences etc.

The Macbook is in the same workgroup as the other machines under WINS configuration, and I have been able to browse the public folders on the windows machines and vice versa when it is up and running.

What is frustrating is this works so well when it is on - fast and speedy internet access (though I must confess I prefer FF3 to Safari). The problem obviously doesn't lie with the hardware - the perfomance under Bootcamp is proof of that - stupidly fast Wi-Fi, with no drop outs whatsoever. I can only surmise that is therefore a problem to do with OS X?

If it's any help, there is another Homehub network nearby, and another network over the road at a BT place (internal business network, not Openzone). Both are secured, and I'm wondering if their presence is enough to confuse Airport?

Any help that anybody could give me with this would be appreciated.

15.4" MacBook Pro 2.5GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 17, 2008 2:41 PM

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Answer 1

Best reply

Tim Haigh

Level 7

24,198 points

Aug 17, 2008 4:32 PM in response to Ben_Eaton

I have looked through the forums and have tried a couple of the solutions mentioned: manually selecting a channel on the Homehub (9-11 are recommended apparently, but I have tried them all) un-hiding the SSID, manually configuring IPv4 and disabling IPv6 in Network Preferences etc.

1, 6, or 11 are recommended not 9-11.

if you have the white BT home hub then this is a thompson router in disguise and are not very good routers. They are same box that my isp (bethere.co.uk) issue branded a bebox.

I had countless issues with it and the only way to get a solid connection was to replace it completely. I now use an apple basestation as my router/access point and zyxel adsl2+ modem and macs and pc's in the house never have and issue with wireless.

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Answer 2

markbau

Level 1

26 points

Aug 17, 2008 4:40 PM in response to Ben_Eaton

Sounds exactly like my problem which started when I installed 10.5.2. Reduced sensitivity and frequent dropouts, in addition, I get asked for my password often after it loses the connection. The router is definately not the problem as other computers/devices work perfectly with it. The problem is the same with any other network I connect with, increasing grey bars, droputs etc. Personally I've given up on Apple fixing this problem as there have been 2 updates since 10.5.2 and neither has made a bean of difference. Applecare have been no help either.

Mark

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Answer 3

Ben_Eaton Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 18, 2008 2:00 AM in response to Tim Haigh

Tim Haigh wrote:
1, 6, or 11 are recommended not 9-11.

Ah yes, the 9-11 thing was a recommendation from several websites that I found about what manual channels the box seems to work on best, however, as I said, I have tried every channel.

Tim Haigh wrote:
I had countless issues with it and the only way to get a solid connection was to replace it completely. I now use an apple basestation as my router/access point and zyxel adsl2+ modem and macs and pc's in the house never have and issue with wireless.

I've no problems with it for almost a year now (compared to the previous BT Voyager 2100 that I had) - it holds the ADSL line steady (the Voyager dropped it every few days and wouldn't connect at a decent speed - 1Mbps was the norm after a drop/reconnect event), and the signal is strong everywhere in the house. I've only had problems with the MBP, and even then only when running OS X.

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Answer 4

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,179 points

Aug 18, 2008 2:43 AM in response to Ben_Eaton

Ben_Eaton wrote:
I've no problems with it for almost a year now (compared to the previous BT Voyager 2100 that I had) - it holds the ADSL line steady (the Voyager dropped it every few days and wouldn't connect at a decent speed - 1Mbps was the norm after a drop/reconnect event), and the signal is strong everywhere in the house. I've only had problems with the MBP, and even then only when running OS X.

I've mentioned on a few other threads that the router may have issues and it may not necessarily be the Mac that's at fault.

In theory every router should operate with every device, but the problem is far too many vendors take an "It works with Windows (using our Wi-Fi device and our drivers) so ship it!" attitude towards Wi-Fi. 😟

There have been many, many reports on the net of users having similar issues with Vista as Mac OS X and Vista are tracking the latest wireless networking standards, and some routers have issues when newer standards expect them to do things slightly differently than say XP did.

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Answer 5

Ben_Eaton Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 18, 2008 3:39 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

William Kucharski wrote:
I've mentioned on a few other threads that the router may have issues and it may not necessarily be the Mac that's at fault.

In theory every router should operate with every device, but the problem is far too many vendors take an "It works with Windows (using our Wi-Fi device and our drivers) so ship it!" attitude towards Wi-Fi. 😟

There have been many, many reports on the net of users having similar issues with Vista as Mac OS X and Vista are tracking the latest wireless networking standards, and some routers have issues when newer standards expect them to do things slightly differently than say XP did.

I understand what you're saying, however the router in question is b/g. I am aware of the relative ease of getting XP onto a Wi-Fi network compared to Vista (in the initial setup at least - far fewer screens to navigate!). However... I have a PSP and a Wii that both log on first time with full signal strength. And the PSP is a great to walk around the house and check what happens to signal strength in certain areas - it never drops the connection at all. The same with the MBP under XP. Additionally, this morning I went to a local coffee shop that has BTopenzone - the same problem occurred - XP fine, OS X flaky.

I'm 95% certain it is purely something to do with the way OS X handles networking, or (possibly more likely) there is a setting I haven't tweaked properly yet. But I just don't know what it is.

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Answer 6

Aug 18, 2008 3:40 AM in response to markbau

so im trawling through this info but embarrassingly i don't understand a lot of what's being advised...

i have my new mac book and have been online on and off all day, on and off because i keep losing connection. i updated to OS 10.5.4 as advised, however i suspect the problem is my router, d-link rangebooster n650.

can someone detail what i need to do? do i connect the router to the macbook to updates its software? do i toggle with connection settings on the macbook?

many thanks in advance,

Stephen, a virgin mac user who is still getting to grips with the change over from pc and windows

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Answer 7

Ben_Eaton Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 18, 2008 5:48 AM in response to stevesgonemac

stevesgonemac wrote:
so im trawling through this info but embarrassingly i don't understand a lot of what's being advised...

Don't worry, not too much advice has appeared yet, though some interesting points have been made. I don't think you and I are the only ones experiencing these problems if you have a quick trawl through the forum.

i have my new mac book and have been online on and off all day, on and off because i keep losing connection. i updated to OS 10.5.4 as advised, however i suspect the problem is my router, d-link rangebooster n650.

Possibly - good idea to eliminate this first - have you got a friend with wireless you can visit and see if the connection is any better on their network?

can someone detail what i need to do? do i connect the router to the macbook to updates its software? do i toggle with connection settings on the macbook?

Arguably, all software updates should be done connected, but these days I think we should be able to rely on the Wi-Fi enough. What connection settings are you wanting to fiddle with?

many thanks in advance,

Stephen, a virgin mac user who is still getting to grips with the change over from pc and windows

Stephen, I'm pretty much the same as you, but the connection thing has been so irritating I've switched to the XP install on this MacBook to browse the internet.

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Answer 8

Aug 18, 2008 6:33 AM in response to Ben_Eaton

yes my old laptop works fine so there no problem with router or network.

If someone could explain how I change ports or switch from N to G or update the router's firmware/software?

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Answer 9

markbau

Level 1

26 points

Aug 18, 2008 6:56 AM in response to stevesgonemac

To update your firmware you will need to go the the router's manufacturers website, find out what model you have and download the latest firmware for it, run the installer and it will either install or will tell you that it doesn't need to be upgraded.

To change channels or N to G you will need to open the utility that allows you to change settings on your router, I have a Apple router so I don't know how to change the settings on a Netgear router but it shouldn't be too hard, at the worst you could run the install disc that came with the router and run a setup assistant, while running it if you come across an "advanced" button click on it and look for the settings you want to change.

having said all that, I have tried changing every setting on my router and airport card and none have improved my airport performance.

mark

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Answer 10

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,179 points

Aug 18, 2008 1:46 PM in response to Ben_Eaton

Ben_Eaton wrote:
I understand what you're saying, however the router in question is b/g. I am aware of the relative ease of getting XP onto a Wi-Fi network compared to Vista (in the initial setup at least - far fewer screens to navigate!). However... I have a PSP and a Wii that both log on first time with full signal strength. And the PSP is a great to walk around the house and check what happens to signal strength in certain areas - it never drops the connection at all. The same with the MBP under XP. Additionally, this morning I went to a local coffee shop that has BTopenzone - the same problem occurred - XP fine, OS X flaky.

The example I've given before is if XP only ever asks the firmware to say, add "2 + 3" and the router replies "5," everything's OK even if the router erroneously answers "6" when asked "What is 3 + 2?"

If say, Mac OS X and perhaps Vista ask the latter question, it's not their responsibility to ask the router the question in the way the router's firmware will provide the correct answer.

I'm not saying that some of these issues aren't Mac OS X driver bugs, simply that "it works with Windows" or "it works with a Wii" can't be used as a definitive troubleshooting technique.

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Answer 11

Ben_Eaton Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 18, 2008 3:07 PM in response to Dogcow-Moof

Ah, I see what you mean - there could be two (or more) ways that are syntactically correct under the 802.11x spec to form a request, but the router may only interpret one of them 100% correctly and the others get garbled leading to connection problems.

So, I guess my question must then become: considering the numerous accounts I have uncovered of this and similar wi-fi problems affecting these modern OSes, what action is being taken? Because at the moment I'm guessing Apple and MS can legitimately say "the router manufacturers aren't programming their hardware correctly" and the router manufacturers can say "our equipment works for 90% of people - get one of those systems instead" leaving people like myself and others high and dry. 😟 Bring on Snow Leopard!

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Answer 12

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,179 points

Aug 18, 2008 8:14 PM in response to Ben_Eaton

That's pretty much the size of it.

Now of course if Apple points out to a router vendor there's an issue, they're usually happy to cooperate, and if Microsoft points out an issue, they're effectively out of business if they don't.

The router manufacturers then issue new firmware that (hopefully) resolves the issue but that of course does nothing for the routers out there with the old firmware that still has the problem, making people (incorrectly) blame the OS. 😟

Alas, "Snow Leopard" would do nothing to solve the issue because if the problem's in the router, it's always going to be there, regardless of the OS, and "Snow Leopard" isn't going to have drivers rewritten to work around router bugs.

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Answer 13

Ben_Eaton Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 28, 2008 9:59 AM in response to Ben_Eaton

Right.

Moved house. MBP still has problems connecting on BT Homehub 1.5. No probs, new house doesn't have BT Phone Line anyway, so start up with Virgin Media. Got their 10Mbps package. Very nice thinks I. Their supplied NetGear router is a 'g' - 54Mbps, not great range. Right next to it, the MBP can connect, and loses the connection less frequently than before, but still, it dies eventually.

No matter - the PC at the back of the house in the office can only get a half strength signal (the cable modem is by the cable entry point at the front of the house). So I have gone and purchased a Belkin Wireless-N router. Now I get insane download speeds throughout the house - except for the MBP when running OS X.

It's driving me nuts now. Seriously - this is supposed to be premium hardware and software - the price certainly was!!!! Yet I find that the supposed crap Windows Vista is about a trillion times better at doing Wi-Fi. In fact, a 7 year old operating system (XP) is a trillion times better than OS X when running on the same exact hardware!!!

I don't want to have to return it, but I feel that the amount of money I have paid for this laptop is far too much considering its inability to connect wirelessly, no matter what speed of network. It's actually embarassing watching the speed at which it decides to jack it all in when attempting to hold a connection.

Do you think Apple would let me return it?

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Answer 14

Ben_Eaton Author

Level 1

2 points

Aug 28, 2008 11:05 AM in response to Ben_Eaton

Actually, now the rage has calmed a little bit, switching the router to the joing 20MHz/40MHz mode so it operated on channel 9 and extension channel 13 seems to help a lot - it still loses it occasionally, but recovers by itself without me having to click AirPort in the menuy bar...

I'll let you know what further adjustments are necessary!

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Answer 15

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,179 points

Aug 28, 2008 8:49 PM in response to Ben_Eaton

Do beware that 802.11n is a bit of a hack right now as it's still a draft standard, meaning that each vendor providing 802.11n equipment likely interprets things a bit differently, so there may be interoperability issues.

If you're willing to give up speed, telling the router to operate in 802.11g or 802.11b/g mode only will often resolve problems.

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