RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by Jerry3012,

    Jerry3012 Jerry3012 Nov 1, 2013 2:24 PM in response to Kxtr73
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 1, 2013 2:24 PM in response to Kxtr73

    Hi Kxtr73,

     

    What CRT monitor are you currently using? I would like to give it a try. Thanks a lot.

  • by Kxtr73,

    Kxtr73 Kxtr73 Nov 2, 2013 9:21 AM in response to Jerry3012
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 2, 2013 9:21 AM in response to Jerry3012

    19' Gateway EV910 in resolution 1024x768 100 Hz. Earlier I've used Samsung 15' Samtron. The most important is have at least 85 Hz refresh rate. 100 and 120 is even better.

     

    However there are much better monitors: Eizo FlexScan, Sony Trinitron, Mitsubishi Diamondtron. The biggest and the best is 24' Sony Trinitron GDM-FW900. (the same: SUN GDM-FW9010, SGI GDM-FW9011, HP GDM-FW9012 and HP A7217A)

     

    btw. Does anyone used plasma TV as monitor ? Plasma as CRT is using phosphor to produce light. I've read that some users found it comfortable for eyes.

  • by dmendel,

    dmendel dmendel Nov 3, 2013 9:48 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 3, 2013 9:48 AM in response to RMartin111

    I just returned my new  27-inch iMac becuse of the screen. Like people are reporting here, it immediately gave me serious eye strain, tightness in the eyes, foggy/light-headedness, naseua and mild headache. After a few days it got a little better, but never abated completely. It seemed like there was a very faint shimmer to the monitor -- not a flicker, but a very subtle shimmering. I had a very hard time focusing on the screen -- it felt like my eyes kept jumping around. I could barely look at the screen when scrolling. My eyes would not refocus on text when scrolling stopped. I turned down brightness, I installed f.lux to adjust the color temperature, I installed bias lighting. While it helped somewhat, the unpelasant effects never fully abated. Plus I found myself staring at a very dim yellow screen. Seems to defeat the purpose of having a $2,000 iMac.

     

    I have aboslutely no problems with other LCD monitors or screens. I have been staring at a 17-in iMac (2006 rev 4,1) for the last 7 years for hours on end 6-7 days a week, with no ill effects. I use an HP 22-inch at the office, have a 2008 13" MacBook that I use regularly, and an iPad 2 that I use all the time. No problems with any of them.

     

    I am now back to using my 2006 iMac running OS Tiger, which is very long in the tooth. I was so looking forward to the new iMac. I will likely buy a mini when it is refreshed, hopefully within the next couple months, and start searching for a monitor that will not make me sick. I have seen some suggestions in this thread, but if anyone can point me to monitors (models, or speciifc characteristics -- type of backlighting, coatings, etc.) that might work for me, I would be grateful.

  • by ckeck,

    ckeck ckeck Nov 3, 2013 10:39 PM in response to dmendel
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 3, 2013 10:39 PM in response to dmendel

    Very interesting, I just came across your post after having this exact issue. Been discussing it over at MacRumors.

     

    I too just returned a new 2013 iMac yesterday after giving it two weeks. I didn't seem to have any issues with my former iMacs (2012, 2011 models) but from the moment I fired this thing up my eyes went crazy and haven't been the same since. Severe eye strain, eye pain, I couldn't ever focus properly on anything on the screen. Set brightness super low, used F.lux, my Gunnar lenses, nothing worked. So bad I've been to the eye doctor twice, now have glasses even though I have 20/10 vision and I'm taking steroid eye drops to try and get my eyes to settle down. Going back tomorrow. No issues on my other screens before (MacBook Air and Dell monitors), although I seem to have some lingering effects from the iMac screen still. I honestly think it did somthing to my eyes but I'm sure it will go away.

     

    Glad to come across someone having what looks like the same exact issue but it's certainly unfortunate. I would constantly have cover my eyes and look away and back just for a few moments to get through what I was working on. And as you mentioned, for a **** near $3,000 machine I shouldn't have to be doing this, it should be the best screen I've ever seen, not killing my eyes. I don't want to have to run something like F.lux and turn everything yellow and run at 20% brightness, what's the point? None of those really helped anyways.

     

    Tried two retina MacBook Pros and noticed some similar issues although not as bad. Ended up still with my trusty MacBook Air for now and most likely going the Mini as soon as it's updated with my ususal Dell UltraSharps.

     

    I'm wondering how many others this is truly affecting.

  • by azure8,

    azure8 azure8 Nov 5, 2013 6:43 PM in response to ckeck
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Nov 5, 2013 6:43 PM in response to ckeck

    Looks like the new iPad Air uses IGZO display tech.

     

    Hoping to get some reviews on this thread.

  • by Scott98981,

    Scott98981 Scott98981 Nov 5, 2013 11:07 PM in response to azure8
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Notebooks
    Nov 5, 2013 11:07 PM in response to azure8

    I'm getting bad eye strain and nausea from ipad air. I actually am fine with iphone 4/5 and ipad 3/4. I note that the new ipad air display is very cool and washed out vs the ipad 3. Using flux on the new retina MacBook Pro at color temperature around 4500K works great with zero eye strain. I'm hoping I can get used to the ipad air. I wish I could change the color temperature.

  • by Simacca,

    Simacca Simacca Nov 6, 2013 4:57 AM in response to Scott98981
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 4:57 AM in response to Scott98981

    Returning my iPad air today as screen is causing same problems as MacBook Pro retina did, but not quite as intense. Tight head, tinnitus, eye strain and slight nausea.

     

    Shame really as my iPad 3 is fine. I have noticed that the iPad air's screen is slightly sharper and 'cleaner' than my ipad 3 which suffers from the pink tint problem. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Nov 6, 2013 10:03 AM in response to Simacca
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 10:03 AM in response to Simacca

    It truly amazes me Apple has not become involved in this post or acknowledged the issue more publicly while working with people like ourselves to remedy it. I cannot count how many people like yourself have stated they are returning brand new computers because they cannot tolerate them, the cost must be adding up exponentially by now. I can only speculate Apple has become so big they are not aware of why so many may be returning their computers, Apple simply continues making higher and higher blue spectrum displays which are obviously an issue.

  • by peter_watt,

    peter_watt peter_watt Nov 6, 2013 10:47 AM in response to noveu
    Level 3 (910 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 10:47 AM in response to noveu

    noveu wrote:

     

    If you care about your eyes, don't buy macs!

    Disagree. I have best laptop ever. Macbook Pro 15" 2012. No problems like millions of other users.

     

    Try the little button next to Esc. and glasses prescribed for screen distances.

     

    The blog is unscientific, too many perhapses. I never believe anything I read in the Telegraph.

  • by dmendel,

    dmendel dmendel Nov 6, 2013 11:24 AM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 11:24 AM in response to Jessiah1

    It's because they don't ask. When I initiated the return of my iMac last week I was not asked WHY. I simply clicked the "return" button and was immediately issued an RMA. I do not know if Apple monitors these dicussions, but whether they do or not they still have zero data on why people are returning. For all we know the returns as a percentage of overall sales are too low to justify investigating any further. But it is frustrating.  I would like them to do something about this. I have owned Apple products since 1988 and have always been very happy. This is the first time in 25 years I have returned an Apple product.

  • by LovesDogs0415,

    LovesDogs0415 LovesDogs0415 Nov 6, 2013 1:14 PM in response to peter_watt
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 1:14 PM in response to peter_watt

    That's you and your experience with your eyes, P Watts..  This is not a problem that can be remedied with glasses or adjustments to the computer.  Why are you here, you don't have the problem and have nothing to contribute.

  • by peter_watt,

    peter_watt peter_watt Nov 6, 2013 1:42 PM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 3 (910 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 1:42 PM in response to LovesDogs0415

    Mine and the experience of millions of satisfied customers. When someone says " if you value your eyes dont buy Mac" it is my duty to challenge it as a representitive of the millions. Get at least a few help points before challenging my right to comment.

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Nov 6, 2013 2:04 PM in response to peter_watt
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 2:04 PM in response to peter_watt

    Peter, first:

     

    You obviously have done no research on the health risks of subliminal flicker or unhealthy spectrums of light, there are scientific research documents supporting the fact that LED technology is harmful to our retina's.

     

    2nd: You are more guilty of being uniformed and unscientific and have obviously not read through this forum post extensively or you would have encountered such articles and real scientific evidence backing many of the concerns posted here in this forum.

     

    3rd: You obviously do not have any issues, why are you here? Do you actually believe you are helping anyone here with your baseless comments? Ironically the very accusation you are making of those here who are suffering is the thing you are completely guilty of right at this moment:

     

    You are providing 0 scientific evidence of your case there is no harm from these LED back lit displays and simply stating your layman opinion. Perhaps one day you will have some long term exposure damage and then find yourself among us, I would not wish that upon you however you simply cannot understand without experiencing our pain. Your comments are inciting and hurtful to those who are suffering.

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Nov 6, 2013 2:13 PM in response to dmendel
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 2:13 PM in response to dmendel

    Makes sense, hard to understand what percentage of returns are from health concerns if no one is collecting the data. For all Apple knows right now this could be a few million dollar issue a year and possibly a million dollar fix! I am thinking about writing the CEO a letter, it may be read by someone at some level who would find this topic important, does anyone have an email or physical address I could write to? Or has anyone already done this?

     

    Thanks,

     

    Jesse

  • by Gareth Jones6,

    Gareth Jones6 Gareth Jones6 Nov 6, 2013 2:18 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Nov 6, 2013 2:18 PM in response to Jessiah1

    Its probably not worth feeding the troll, but I did laugh at the suggestion that it is his 'duty' to stick up for a huge multinational corporation with a terrible record for exploiting workers in China and for engaging in tax avoidance around the world

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