RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Dec 23, 2013 1:39 AM in response to ArtechokiQ
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    Dec 23, 2013 1:39 AM in response to ArtechokiQ

    ArtechokiQ

     

    on the other hand, be careful. Maybe it's not a good idea to have your monitors at a maximum brightness, since it may cause severe eye pain, a few days later when you become sensitive.

     

    This happen to me. The effects are not imediate, but when they appear it's at full force...

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Dec 23, 2013 2:27 AM in response to mojarvinen
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    Dec 23, 2013 2:27 AM in response to mojarvinen

    mojarvinen

     

    do you have polarized sunglasses? If so, can you put them on and see through your different devices including your surface? To me the most irritable screens are the one which are polorized and with colours. you see rainbow of colours. On your Sasmung SA850D you will only notice black and white as you move your head.

     

    This only work with polarized sunglasses, not normal sunglasses...

  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Dec 23, 2013 2:45 AM in response to tfouto
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    Dec 23, 2013 2:45 AM in response to tfouto

    Hey, thanks for the tip!

     

     

    I'm just now viewing my Surface Pro 2 with my polarized sunglasses and lo and behold, I see rainbow colours in white areas.  When I  turn my head, the display does not go dark, like with my HP display or my Galaxy s2.

     

    So in addition to the DSLR tests, this could be a test that reveals one source of eye strain in a display.

     

    Thoug, I tested also with the iPad 1st generation and that behaves almost like the HP display, that absolutely does not cause eye strain. However, it does not go completely dark, so clearly there is a difference in the polarization layer of the iPad.

     

    I has actually hoping that the iPad would have displaye similar rainbow colours, so then it all would have made sence, that the polarization layer is the culprit in the display.

     

    But when I get this Surface sold and start hunting for an alternative, I'll bring my polarized glasses in addition to the DSLR to the game, so when I find a display that passess the DSLR tests and does not show rainbow colours in with polarized sunglasses, I can be fairly safe that it will not irritate my eyes.

     

    Isn't this difficult?

  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Dec 23, 2013 2:56 AM in response to mojarvinen
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    Dec 23, 2013 2:56 AM in response to mojarvinen

    ah, forget it. False alarm. I tested the Xperia z1 which I have confirmed that it does not irritate my eyes - it shows similar rainbow colours as the surface pro.

     

    It's maddening that there seems to be no conclusion on what is causing the eye strain.

     

    PWM is one for sure, no doubth about it but that does not explain iPad and Surface Pro eye strain.

     

    Or then those have it, but at such a high frequency that the DSLR test does not detect it, but optic nerve still does.

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Dec 23, 2013 3:00 AM in response to mojarvinen
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    Dec 23, 2013 3:00 AM in response to mojarvinen

    If you lower the brightness on your Surface Pro does your SLR detects the PWM?

     

    One think the Z1 has 'bad angle' views. Maybe that's not related, but maybe polarization might be slightly different...

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Dec 23, 2013 3:31 AM in response to mojarvinen
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    Dec 23, 2013 3:31 AM in response to mojarvinen

    I will buy photodiodes and connect to audio connect of the pc. Then with a free software (oscilloscope) i will measure easily the PWM even if its high frequencies that SLR cannot detect...

     

    It seems there is also software for Android... That way in a portable way you can walk to the stores and measure PWM even if it's high frequencies...

     

    http://www.retropcmania.com/2011/11/soundcard-oscilloscope-on-thinkpad-x61.html

     

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1103/1103.1760.pdf

     

    http://www.noise.inf.u-szeged.hu/edudev/Photogate/

     

    http://www.noise.inf.u-szeged.hu/edudev/Sub$10PhotogateVariants/

     

    http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/scope_en

     

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.nexuscomputing.android.osciprim eics&hl=en

     

     

    BTW Xperia Z1 is TFT and not IPS..

  • by spprt,

    spprt spprt Dec 23, 2013 4:10 AM in response to tfouto
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    Dec 23, 2013 4:10 AM in response to tfouto

    I was wondering if sound card oscilloscopes can detect very high PWM frequencies. I think many sound cards have like 22,000 Hz sampling rate, so maybe they can't detect insanely high PWM?

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Dec 23, 2013 4:15 AM in response to tfouto
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    Dec 23, 2013 4:15 AM in response to tfouto

    hi tfouto,

    I use this a phototransistor connected to this:

    SainSmart NANO DSO201 Oscilloscope

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/SainSmart-NANO-DSO201-Oscilloscope-Mini-Storage-Digital-P ocket-Sized-Portable-/261073771386?_trksid=p2054897.l4276

     

    To my calculations it should be able to detect up to around 22kHz (limitation is the phototransistor), and I could confirm for example the 8kHz measured by PRAD.de on the Dell U2413 as well.

     

    All Apple I tested shown no PWM (but still huge eye strain)...

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Dec 23, 2013 5:54 AM in response to spprt
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    Dec 23, 2013 5:54 AM in response to spprt

    Mine has 192khz:

     

    http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=28&Level=5&Co nn=4&ProdID=325

     

    I dont know how much the photodiodes can handle...

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Dec 23, 2013 5:50 AM in response to StefanD13
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    Dec 23, 2013 5:50 AM in response to StefanD13

    StefanD13,

     

    What phototransistor do you have?

     

    BTW did you measure PWM with the ipad with a really low brightness?

     

    If you lower the bright to lower levels does the strain remains?

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Dec 23, 2013 6:59 AM in response to ArtechokiQ
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    Dec 23, 2013 6:59 AM in response to ArtechokiQ

    ArtechokiQ "Sometimes I get excited by seeming success but then oops I was wrong"

     

    I agree, even with my ridiculous sensitivity I sometimes fool myself with excitement into believing something is working, the brain is certainly a powerful motivator but it cannot fool you forever.

     

    There seems to be a lot of good science going on here with adjustments and tweaks to monitors, IMO I believe you guys are doing a good job mitigating the effects of the LED or fluorescent backlighting however the root cause is still there (Most likely spectrum combined with some sort of flickering). The good news is for some people you have found settings that will make computing possible, for myself I wish I could try some of the devices you guys are tweaking so I could help; if you can make LED back lights anywhere near tolerable for me you would definitely be helping everyone as I have not found a single LED light source I can tolerate!

     

    One question: Has anyone combined any of this research with AC/DC power filtering at the same time?

     

    Happy holidays everyone, I wish you all a headache and eyestrain free holiday season

     

    Jesse

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Dec 23, 2013 7:42 AM in response to tfouto
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    Dec 23, 2013 7:42 AM in response to tfouto

    Hi tfouto,

     

    I use this one: bp103

     

    Yes of course measured at least under 50% and in general with Apple devices, the brightness level didn't influence the eye strain.

    On my work computer however setting brigthness to 100% (and color depth to 16bit) is the only way I can work.

     

    BR,

    Stefan

  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Dec 23, 2013 6:24 PM in response to StefanD13
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    Dec 23, 2013 6:24 PM in response to StefanD13

    StefanD13 have you tested any of the displays that I've found not to cause problems?

     

    Or any display that does not require tweaking to be tolerable.

     

    The HP ZR2740w is truly a great display - it has a great image quality and does not cause any eye strain at any setting. 

     

    Would be great if some others that have this problem, could try that out, so at least we could confirm what does not cause the problem. Then examine the differences between the HP display and E.g  an Apple display that causes problems.

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Dec 23, 2013 11:52 PM in response to mojarvinen
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    Dec 23, 2013 11:52 PM in response to mojarvinen

    Hi mojarvinen,

     

    I have tried the ZR2740W as well as the xperia Z1. Although both no PWM they were for me still uncomfortable (still not as bad as Apple devices).

    My assumption is still the dithering, although in the mean time I'm almost sure that my nvidia card is not doing any dithering, so for the HP monitor probably the problem is the screen internal dithering.

    I have tried as well the Dell U2413 and it was similar with the HP.

    I have not tried yet the Dell U2410, but I read it does FRC (meaning temporal) dithering from 8 to 10bit.

     

    BR,

    Stefan

  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Dec 24, 2013 12:25 AM in response to StefanD13
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    Dec 24, 2013 12:25 AM in response to StefanD13

    Interesting. I don't want to dwell on this but did you really have the chance to try the HP display long enough and while not using any other offending devices -  with fully unstrained eyes?

     

    I find it even more strange that we would have so many types of eye strain. That while I get severe eyestrain from PWM an also some non PWM displays, the HP surely does not bother me at all. Did you test the v2 of it,  with less agressive anti-glare coating?

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