RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

Close

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

  • All replies
  • Helpful answers

first Previous Page 116 of 160 last Next
  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Feb 6, 2014 4:02 AM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 6, 2014 4:02 AM in response to tfouto

    I can give you the names offline if you like. I can tell you that the one used Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich and the other Android 2.3 Gingerbread.

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 6, 2014 4:08 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 6, 2014 4:08 AM in response to Exandas

    Thanks the versions are enough. 2.3 it's long time ago. Maybe it has to do with GPU and drivers...

  • by tight_eye,

    tight_eye tight_eye Feb 6, 2014 5:13 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 6, 2014 5:13 AM in response to RMartin111

    Today I can report that my headache and eye strain is gone with the retina MBP after 7 days of usage. The effect from staring at the sun is not gone. Specified: When I look at the machine, I experience the same visual effect I get when I lay in the sun with closed eyes and return into the darker house and open them up. 

     

    But when I close the macbook the effect won't go away. Even though my eyes are not hurting anymore this is a bit of a strange vision and I'm not sure whether it is healthy.

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 7, 2014 1:51 AM in response to tight_eye
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 7, 2014 1:51 AM in response to tight_eye

    i was thinking in different OS's...

     

    Might the problem not be related with dithering itself, but how each OS handles color profiles? To me Linux distros always seems more washed out then Windows.In Windows colors are more vivid. Maybe they handle color profiles in a different way.

  • by spprt,

    spprt spprt Feb 10, 2014 3:40 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 10, 2014 3:40 AM in response to RMartin111

    Did anyone try those SleepShield blue light filter screens? They may not help if your eye strain is caused by flicker, that's for sure. Maybe they are worth a try. But I'm not sure how efficiently their filters block or if they work at all.

  • by wimpytron,

    wimpytron wimpytron Feb 11, 2014 1:15 PM in response to spprt
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 11, 2014 1:15 PM in response to spprt

    hello

     

    I experience the same irrition and burning eyes on 90% of the tft lcd led screens. i must admit that the sony vaio pro 13 seems an exception. i will go and try a multi flip 15a with same triluminos sony screen and intel 4400 graphical card. as formerly stated here,  on batteries it has nearly zero irritation. so it seams driver or videocard related although i have it also on some smartphones and even tvs....

     

    sleepshield and other filters do NOT help. i even have glasses yith uv and blue light blocking glasses but it is not the solution.

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 12, 2014 12:54 AM in response to wimpytron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 12, 2014 12:54 AM in response to wimpytron

    wimpytron,

     

    Do you have smartphones that dont cause eye sore? If so which? I am looking for it.

     

    Thanks

  • by wimpytron,

    wimpytron wimpytron Feb 12, 2014 12:23 PM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 12, 2014 12:23 PM in response to tfouto

    i have an htc one X smarthphone with no eye issues. it is damm difficult nowadays to buy any gadget with a screen on... 9 out of 10 flat screens give me sore eyes and up untill now not one tablet that is ok for me. this sony vaio pro 13 gives me hope.... but i want to try the vaio multi flip now, so that i can use the laptop as a tablet. i get more and more convinced that it has something to do with video card-driver... no solution is found yet on the entire internet....

  • by peter_watt,

    peter_watt peter_watt Feb 12, 2014 4:17 PM in response to wimpytron
    Level 3 (910 points)
    Feb 12, 2014 4:17 PM in response to wimpytron

    Anyone know if this display on my Macbook Pro 15 inch Late 2011 with HD (non glass) display is LED backlit or the older type?

     

    Info...

    15-inch (1680 x 1050)

    Intel HD Graphics 3000 384 MB graphics

     

    System Report...

      Displays:

    Color LCD:

      Display Type:          LCD

      Resolution:          1680 x 1050

      Pixel Depth:          32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)

      Main Display:          Yes

      Mirror:          Off

      Online:          Yes

      Built-In:          Yes

  • by chattphotos,

    chattphotos chattphotos Feb 12, 2014 4:59 PM in response to peter_watt
    Level 4 (2,447 points)
    Desktops
    Feb 12, 2014 4:59 PM in response to peter_watt

    In a nutshell, yes

     

    Also, take a look at Gunnar computer glasses, their eyestrain relief glasses are quite good!

  • by peter_watt,

    peter_watt peter_watt Feb 13, 2014 1:16 AM in response to chattphotos
    Level 3 (910 points)
    Feb 13, 2014 1:16 AM in response to chattphotos

    Yes LED or yes older type?

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 13, 2014 1:21 AM in response to wimpytron
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 13, 2014 1:21 AM in response to wimpytron

    wimpyton,

     

    One piece of advise. Do not upgrade to HTC One. While it's a great phone, i find the phone unusable.

     

    I bought almost a year now. On first 6 months was fine, then it had a problem. The phone didn't charge. Send it to warranty, for some reason they change the display. The most painfull thing to look at. Within seconds acute pain. i noticed that the gps was not good. When they repaired the phone they broke gps. I sent it back again, ask if possible to put the old display. They put a new one. Now it came again. It's a different screen. Now i tend not to look much to it, only when really necessary.

     

    This screen is leding me to a conclusion that part of this, in my case, is of neurological cases. When i look to phone i get cramps in legs, twitching. Or maybe it's hars on eyes, make them really fatigue and have an impact on brain.

     

    I have a thing called BFS (benign fasciculation syndrome). It's totally bening. You might check on wikipedia. Basically it's a benign condition, really unkown on the causes and doctors dont worry or study much. In my case it rarely manifests. It manifest when i am tired. Long periods of short sleep, or intense physical training. I get twicthing on my muscles and cramps on legs. I have been lack sleeping for a while. When i watch to my phone now or a new led display i could in seconds feel my legs cramping and twicthing... Really i'll have big cramps on my legs just for looking at the phone

     

    It's really a riddle, what this screens have. I will try to sleep more and see if this effects disappear/minimize.

     

    I am thinking in selling this phone and getting a new 'old' phone.

     

    My toughts are:

     

    Drivers are not the only cause. LED light has a major role here. I think even if graphical drivers/tithering whatever is a cause, this cause is more acute on led displays, maybe because they are brighter or different spectrum of light.

     

    There are people here who say that just the kindle led backlight gives them eye sore. I dont thing there is any dithering in that case. Maybe PWM?

  • by OQ3,

    OQ3 OQ3 Feb 13, 2014 5:39 AM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 13, 2014 5:39 AM in response to tfouto

    Can you be sure they haven't upgraded the firmware while doing repairs? And it might be that you misunderstood about the kindle. Wasn't it used without backlight when it caused problems? Could you quote the post you are referring to for clarification?

  • by tfouto,

    tfouto tfouto Feb 13, 2014 5:35 AM in response to OQ3
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 13, 2014 5:35 AM in response to OQ3

    I upgraded a few days later not them...

     

    I noticed that screens were different. They were made by different manufacters. The new ones are more brighter, bigger contrast and color saturation...

  • by OQ3,

    OQ3 OQ3 Feb 13, 2014 5:41 AM in response to tfouto
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 13, 2014 5:41 AM in response to tfouto

    Did you start experiencing problems right after the phone came from the repair with the new screen or is it possible that it was after the upgrade that you started having problems with it?

first Previous Page 116 of 160 last Next