RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by Scott98981,

    Scott98981 Scott98981 Mar 22, 2014 12:51 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Notebooks
    Mar 22, 2014 12:51 PM in response to RMartin111

    another update:

     

    I just tried the kindle fire HDX 7 tablet with quantum dots. This new technology is amazing and the best color reproduction I've ever seen. I still had some eye strain with this tablet, but did not really spend enough time with it to be 100% certain if I could use this for many hours a day. I didn't purchase it because I prefer iOS at this point. There is some speculation that Apple is going to be using this technology in the future, and while I'm very interested in that from a color accuracy standpoint, I'm still not convinced that the eye strain problem can be corrected by using a more complete spectrum without blue shift. If that were the only solution, I imagine that OLED and the sony triluminos quantum dot displays would be a complete fix to this situation. That said, the more iterations of different screen techologies the better as I hope eventually one will come out by "accident" that works for us.

  • by fakeman333,

    fakeman333 fakeman333 Mar 22, 2014 7:48 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 22, 2014 7:48 PM in response to RMartin111

    I'll some answer the other questions posed to me later. but a question to you people - how many of you suffer from anxiety or neurosis?

  • by soundstar3,

    soundstar3 soundstar3 Mar 23, 2014 12:42 PM in response to fakeman333
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 23, 2014 12:42 PM in response to fakeman333

    I also have very bad eye strain from monitors and screens. As many of you i also can't use led technology. This all start after a lasik surgery. In the last 5 months i have bought 6 laptops and 5 monitors. I had to return all laptops including a macbook pro because the eye strain was very bad. The best monitor i have tried was a dell u1708fp but still far from perfect. I also bought a dell u2410h that was better than all the led monitors, but still very bad for my eyes. I can use all day an old laptop screen from 2008 with lcd ccfl backlight. What im going to do is to buy a controller that will allow me to use this laptop monitor as an external monitor.

     

    Im trying to find a solution for my eyes. Im searching for monitor filters. Unfortunately i believe there is nothing in the market for us, and we have to create our own product. I found some filters that i think its worth to try.

     

    -Quality window film tint as llumar or 3M

    -llumar air 80

    -Ambert uv blocking film (This one looks really good)

    http://www.uvps.com/product.asp?code=FILTER+++B

     

    In my opinion the best way to use this films is to buy 1mm (or thinner) clear acrylic sheet and then glue the film. If you glue it directly to screen it will be very difficult to remove without damaging the screen. Any of you have tried window film as a screen filter?

  • by soundstar3,

    soundstar3 soundstar3 Mar 23, 2014 12:57 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 23, 2014 12:57 PM in response to RMartin111

    Would love to find a filter film that work with the macbook pro, by far the worse screen i have tested for eye strain.

  • by LovesDogs0415,

    LovesDogs0415 LovesDogs0415 Mar 23, 2014 1:31 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mar 23, 2014 1:31 PM in response to RMartin111

    I know that sometimes we talk about sensitivity on other devices, such as the iPhone, and I want to report that I just upgraded to IOS 7.1 on the iPhone 4S (can't use the 5), and I noticed a difference immediately.  I was not expecting it, so this is not a psychological effect.  I immediately looked to see if my bright settings had been adjusted because, as illogical as it seems, this made a difference to me on the 4S.  Not perfect but better.  The setting was the same.  After looking at the screen for just a few moments, I noticed a dry feeling in the eyes and a strain on my eyes.  I have to be honest, I thought I had experienced a spontaneous improvement since I could use the iPhone 4s with no problem.  Didn't understand it, was just glad to be able to have an iPhone.  Wish I had not gone to this upgrade.  Only time will tell if I adjust or have to abandon the phone.  It definitely hurts my eyes.  It has to be the software because the hardware did not change.  If anyone has any advice, I'm open.  For any of you able to use the iPhone with the previous OS, take care in upgrading.  You know Apple won't let you revert.

  • by LovesDogs0415,

    LovesDogs0415 LovesDogs0415 Mar 23, 2014 3:56 PM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mar 23, 2014 3:56 PM in response to LovesDogs0415

    An update:  I went into the accessibility settings and opted out of bold and turned on increase contrast and reduce motion and the white point.  That seemed to help a lot.  It's not so uncomfortable, just normal sensitivity.  I wouldn't watch a movie, but can use basic phone and text functions.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Mar 24, 2014 1:19 PM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 24, 2014 1:19 PM in response to Exandas

    I have purchased Benq 2405 in order to test it. I have been playing with it for the last 3-4 hours. The display is supposed to be flicker free and has a functionality to block blue light.

     

    Up to now i think for me is the best led display i have used. I guess it is not as perfect as my old ccfl displays, but i think it could be a display i could keep.

    The only symptom i got was that after a couple of hours of continued use i felt a bit dizzy, but that was it. After  15 minutes of rest i was fine again. No eye strain, no headaches. It maybe that i have not being used to work with large displays, up to today i had worked with up to 19".

     

    I have attached the monitor to my professional desktop pc HP / Win7 / Intel HD Graphics. I keep the blue light functionality  to office mode 60% which is for me a good brightness level.

     

    One strange thing is that while the letters in ms office apps and Windows menus are very crisp, in the internet explorer and chrome the letters are a bit blurry.

     

    I will post again tomorrow after i spend the day with it and see how i will be tomorrow morning in terms of sore eyes and headaches (if any).

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Mar 25, 2014 3:39 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 25, 2014 3:39 AM in response to Exandas

    After a full day of work with Benq 2405, i can say that it is the best led display i have used up to now. Yet it is not as comfortable as my ccfl displays. While i don't get severe eye strain, I get a persistent mild dizziness, a symptom i am not getting from the ccfl displays i am using. Today i woke up with this dizziness, which i don't know if it is something that i should ignore and if i will be able to get accustomed to it in the future.  So I am thinking whether i should keep it or send it back.

    I think this display is an improvement, considering the history of led displays and the symptoms they cause to a minority of the population, but i think it does not provide the comfort of a good ccfl display.

  • by spprt,

    spprt spprt Mar 25, 2014 11:36 AM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 25, 2014 11:36 AM in response to LovesDogs0415

    Those new iOS 7.1 settings didn't help me. I tried several combinations and (low) brightness settings, too. My iPad 4 still hurts my eyes, it's incredible. After like 10 minutes I was forced to turn it off. Half an hour later now, still sore eyes. Everything was good with iOS 6 for over 1 year (I used the iPad many hours a day without pain). The difference is like night and day. It would be helpful if an Apple engineer would talk to us so they can identify and fix the problem.

  • by LovesDogs0415,

    LovesDogs0415 LovesDogs0415 Mar 25, 2014 12:06 PM in response to spprt
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mar 25, 2014 12:06 PM in response to spprt

    I wish Apple believed this is a problem.  Our complaints and comments fall on deaf ears.  The settings are not a perfect fix, for sure.  I can't use an iPad at all, regardless of setting or IOS.  This only allows me to use my iPhone a little.  I still get eye strain and the subsequent fatigue.   I had no problems with IOS 6 or iOS 7.0.6. 

    However, 7.1 is definitely a problem.  Sorry this didn't help you at all.

  • by Willast,

    Willast Willast Mar 25, 2014 12:57 PM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 25, 2014 12:57 PM in response to Exandas

    I am also one of the LED sufferers.  I can only use XP on a CRT.  I am trying to get comfortable with Windows 7 on a CRT as I have problems with CCFL and LED monitors.  CCFL gives me a pain in the temples that goes away after an hour or so.  If I use an LED monitor.  I get different pains depending on whether the issue is Flickering or Blue light.  Usually Flickering hits me first.  I have tried all kinds of monitors with no good results.  I have tried the Sony VAIO with no joy and recently I got a BENQ BL2410PT.  I put the blue light down by 75% and brightness at 50%.  I was on the monitor for about an hour and it seemed ok.  But later that nite I developed a pounding headache in my temples and it is still there 3 days later with a huge sensitivity to light.  So it is back to CRT for me. 

     

    For Windows 7 on the newer laptops I just have a hard time looking at the screen for any length of time.  I had been using a Lenovo X220 connected to a CRT but it looked fuzzy with True type turned off.  I have a number of X200 Lenovos and they are clearer but still difficult to look at.  I have also gotten a USB to VGA adapter and that seems to make the Lenovo X220 clearer but I have to try that for a length of time.  I am also trying out blue blocking amber film from lowbluelights.com

     

    So for me flickering is a big issue and how much blue light the monitor puts out is another factor.  LED monitors literally burn my eyes.  CCFL don't go so far into the blue of the sprectrum so I have a little more tolerance for them.

     

    What I would like help with now is suggestions on how to get Windows 7 working on a CRT comfortably.  Any hacks or suggestions would be useful.  I will have to wait for a monitor technology that doesn't have spikes in the blue end of the light spectrum

  • by Gareth Jones6,

    Gareth Jones6 Gareth Jones6 Mar 25, 2014 2:34 PM in response to Willast
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mar 25, 2014 2:34 PM in response to Willast

    It seems like a fair few people are using Windows XP here with no trouble, myself included. Presumably Windows 7 is no good.

     

    Does anyone have experience with Vista? I recall reading that if you turn the Aero effects off then it is fine.

     

    The reason I ask is that Microsoft is about to withdraw support for XP, which means we'll no longer be able to get updates for programmes on there. Some programmes may even stop working.

     

    Also, I may be late on this, but Ebay has some decent spec refurbished computers with XP on them for decent prices. I've just ordered one to give it a try, but it occurred to me afterwards maybe I should have gone for Vista.

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Mar 25, 2014 2:36 PM in response to Gareth Jones6
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 25, 2014 2:36 PM in response to Gareth Jones6

    Is it XP that is the trick or are most people using older CCFL monitors with XP? How many people are having luck with XP on a newer LED monitor?

     

    Thanks,

     

    Jesse

  • by Scott98981,

    Scott98981 Scott98981 Mar 25, 2014 7:04 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Notebooks
    Mar 25, 2014 7:04 PM in response to Jessiah1

    At least for me the OS doesn't seem to make a difference. The new LED HP monitors at my hospital kill my eyes rapidly regardless of win7 vs. xp. I'm OK on any OS I've tried with a CCFL or CRT. I can power through ~ 4 hours on the MacBook Pro retina, but I will have eye pain lasting ~ 2 days afterward. I no longer get nausea but definately will get a headache. My hope for now is some new display tech using quantum dots. I was hoping transflective tech like mirasol or liquavista would lead to a new type of display, but it seems that LED backlit displays will be the main technology for the forseeable future. 

  • by Gareth Jones6,

    Gareth Jones6 Gareth Jones6 Mar 26, 2014 2:07 AM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mar 26, 2014 2:07 AM in response to Jessiah1

    I was using a WinXP desktop computer with an LED monitor last week at one of my clients' offices. I was able to force myself to use it for an hour which was better than my Macbook, but it was still unconfortable and I couldn't use it for longer.

     

    While LED screens are part of the problem, for me there is definitely something in modern operating systems or graphics cards as well, as I can't use my Macbook through a CCFL display. There is also the issue people have been reporting with IOS 7.1, where a software update has made it unusable.

     

    I'd be interested to know if anyone can use a Win7 desktop computer through a CCFL monitor but has had problems with other operating systems

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