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  • tfouto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yes it solve, 100%. For a certain level of redness on the screen my eye pain disappears totally...

  • Dovez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    And for how long can you use it with a red screen? The maximum number of hours a day.

  • tfouto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    All day. i guess, or almost. I never try that. I might have soreness, but that it's the same for every monitor. It's not healthy to look all day to a tv or monitor. The eye need's rest.

  • Dovez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Than you don't really have that much of a problem. How is it with normal colors without flux? How long can you use it? Is it the same with every monitor?

  • tfouto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    My monitor, i get eyes problems with white screens in minutes... 2, 3...

     

    It's not the same with different monitors of course. New LED's tend to be worst... It varies...

  • Dovez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Okay, why then are you the only one who says reducing blue solved his problem completely, and why have you never mentioned it before? It seems like such an important thing to mention.

  • tfouto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    i said before... It's you who keep minimizing and saying blue it's not a issue. It's over hyped.

  • mojarvinen Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    A monitor should be like a book. Reading a book for the whole day does not cause eye irritation, at least for most people.

     

    I can use my PWM free monitors 24h without any irritation. It's like reading a book or watching television.

     

    So I do not agree that if f-lux enables you to use the monitor for some hours, but your eyes still get irritated, that the problem would not be PWM.

     

    Try a monitor that is confirmed problem free without f.lux and you'll see.

     

    HP ZR2740w for example, or maybe some of the Eizo's.

  • Dovez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yeah. A monitor should be like a book.

  • Dovez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I say blue light can be a factor, but not the main problem. Reducing blue just reduces a bit light stress for you to be more comfortable, but it doesn't sound like you are really 100% comfortable with your monitors.

  • mojarvinen Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    What I have tried to point out several times in this thread, but people always take it the wrong way and respond with hostility:

     

    Flicker, be it dithering or PWM is a clear problem for many people. It can be fixed by just removing the flicker. Many manufacturers are already aware of this and they are producing displays that do not flicker. But some manufacturers still use PWM of 240-8000 Hz, which causes problems.

     

    But if this flicker problems is confused to some other problem and if this problems is confused to something like "these people get eplileptic seizures from strobo lights, cannot tolerate car tail lights, are generally light sensitive or cannot tolerate blue light" -kind of thing, then no manufacturer will take this problems seriously. Some people do get migraines from a flashing camp fire or similar.

     

    But this problem is entirely something else, which can be fixed by just removing the flicker.

     

    I know it is troublesome to get headaches from camp fires or to not tolerate LED car tail lights. I do not belittle that problem.  What I'm saying that my guess (unfortunately no facts) is that most people that get eye strain from displays would not get if the displays would not flicker. These same people most often do not suffer the camp fire migraines and can tolerate car tail lights.

     

    I have contatect Microsoft to try to get my point across that they would ensure that the coming Surface Pro 3 would not have a flickering display, but because this problem is too often thought "yeah, these peole who get migraines from camp fires... we are not going to change the profitable display technology for a couple of people that have unusual prolbems"

     

    You see my point? I'm not trying to be impolite. I do think that the flicker problem is wide spread, but most people dismiss it as using computers too much, or poor eyesight or sleeping poorly or similar, they do not even realize that the dry irritated eyes they keep eye dropping, could be remedied by manufacturers just removing flicker.  And most of these people do not get migraines, they just get irritated eyes from the flicker.

  • tfouto Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I am sorry but the monitor is not like a book. There is direct light to your eyes. Not like a book, which is indirectly light, reflective surface and light.

  • mojarvinen Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Agreed, not like a book as such. That was not my point. My poin was that one should be able to read/use a monitor as comfortably as a book, which in my case is true with the monitors that do not flicker.

     

    So saying that after long use a monitor causes moderate eye strain is not how it should be, if you do not get eye strain reading a book.

     

    Of course, if your eyes get irritated reading a book, then there probably is no monitor that you could use without irritation.

     

    These flicker free displays have been a miracle for me. I suffered red irritated eyes for 20+ years and always thought that I just use computers too much. But with the LED technology combined with PWM the problem became so severe that I needed to investegate it, as I could not go to a customer meeting and use my laptop screen periodically without getting red eyes.

     

    Some 5 years ago there was almost no information on the topic. Now there is a lot, but still people who complain on the forums, that they get eye straing from e.g. Surface RT, are ridiculed, because people are just not aware of the problem.

     

    That's why if we combine the camp fire migraine and light sensitive people with the flicker problem, it's even more unlikely to get this problem fixed.

     

    I know that fixing the flicker leaves the camp fire migraine folks uncatered for, but unfortunately I think that it is another type of problem that might not ever be fixed with display technology.

     

    But we cannot mix these problem types into one basket, since removing the flicker is a clear solution for many people. People that are just not aware that they suffer from the flicker.

  • Exandas Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I think problems are mixed in the same basket because a minority of the population experienced eye strain and headaches from the use of new displays and the obvious and new common factor was the led backlight.  

     

    Personally i am not affected by flicker in ccfl displays at all (all my devices flicker using the camera or pencil test), while with the led flicker free displays i experience discomfort at varying degrees (depending on the monitor).Also i had never been sensitive to any light up to the point when leds were introduced.

     

    So it seems that there are two broad categories here: one that is affected mainly by flicker and the other affected mainly from the led lights. I think manufacturers need to address both problems.

     

    After many tests with various devices under the guidance of my physician who is very interested in the subject, he supports that the issue for me and probably other people is with the intensity and/or spectrum of the leds. He believes that for some people this type of light overstimulates the optical nerve in the brain.

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    mojarvinen

     

    "These flicker free displays have been a miracle for me. I suffered red irritated eyes for 20+ years and always thought that I just use computers too much. But with the LED technology combined with PWM the problem became so severe that I needed to investigate it, as I could not go to a customer meeting and use my laptop screen periodically without getting red eyes."

     

    This is very interesting, Mojarvinen this was the first step my Opthamologist and I explored, having dry red eyes. If this is your primary symptom there are other ways to help yourself for sure, and this is the most common issue people have with displays in general, even average Joe. It comes partly from not blinking while looking at the bright displays, your eyes are trying to focus on the flicker (Which is worse in LED monitors due to the nature of the light, even flicker free is not going to be perfect due to power delivery fluctuation!!!). People who get dry red irritated eyes often have eyes ducts that do not generate enough natural tears as well.

     

    Probably you have tried these two common treatments for this situation which may help?

     

    1: Natural tears eye drops applied while using monitors for any period of time

     

    2: Supplementing with Fish oil? Helps with dry eyes believe it or not:)

     

    Also, they make supps with Zeazathean and other eye health ingredients these days that have been shown to help.

     

    I am not saying this to start an argument however MY OPINION (Not to be taken as a factual statement!!) based on extensive research and understanding of flicker Vs. light and my observations of everyone's comments/experiences here on this forum that Mojarvinen you are the minority here. There appear to be more people here with higher sensitivity issues, which could be due to flicker or spectrum, than there are having red irritated eye syndrome.

     

    With that said I believe you are correct about approaching companies on how to fix the issue, if they believe only a minority have such an extreme issue they will not react. But they are reacting and they have attempted to correct both flicker and spectrum issues so they have already acknowledged there is an issue with both.

     

    Finally I will finish by saying that what gets people in an argumentative state is when statements are made like "Flicker is the primary problem" or "Spectrum is the primary problem" we have tension because people have strong feelings on what the cause may be. The reality is we cannot make these statements as fact because no one here has the scientific data to prove or disprove anything, we are still in a status where we MUST consider both problems as part of the bigger issue until proven otherwise.

     

    Mojarvinen, I feel strongly you have plenty to add to this discussion. I also feel we should respect everyone's opinions until proven incorrect and not stand on our own opinions as if they are fact and this group will remain constructive.

     

    I hope everyone here enjoy's their weekend!

     

    Jesse