RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

Close

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

  • All replies
  • Helpful answers

first Previous Page 14 of 160 last Next
  • by MisterMojo,

    MisterMojo MisterMojo Jan 9, 2012 2:22 PM in response to Dave Nikkel
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 9, 2012 2:22 PM in response to Dave Nikkel

    NEC also offers high-quality CCFL backlight displays. The type of backlight is usually noted under a display's specifications provided by all manufacturers.

     

    I recently purchased an NEC 2490WUXi2 from B&H Photo for $549. Its MSRP is $899. Unfortunately, the price has increased to $700 (at least the last time I checked). During the 3 months or so before the end of 2011 B&H varied the price between $600 and $650 except for a short period when it was $549.

     

    Unless you have a need for a wide-gamut display, good quality standard-gramut displays can be found for reasonable prices. Displays such as the standard-gamut NEC that I purchased are generally more expensive because they have higher-quality IPS panels designed for critical color work and sometimes have additional calibration/adjustment options. A wide-gamut display of comparable quality and size will cost an additional $200 or more.

     

    This is an excellent website that has lots of information about displays along with reviews: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

  • by nursek23,

    nursek23 nursek23 Jan 11, 2012 9:10 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 11, 2012 9:10 PM in response to RMartin111

    This is amazing to read. I have a MBP purchased in June of 2010 and have been having headaches for the past year and a half and terrible eye strain. I thought I had eye infections, pinkeye, and migraines. I was diagnosed with tension headaches and told that I needed to limit computer time and use special eye drops. I never made the connection to my MBP. My mom was given a MBP for Christmas this year and has been experiencing terrible eye strain, red puffy eyes, and irritation. She went to the doctor and he was not able to find anything the matter. She was given eye drops and sent on her way. She said to me today that she thought it might be the computer and when I said I agreed we decided to Google it and check if we were right. We are not alone....

  • by ChanPfan,

    ChanPfan ChanPfan Jan 13, 2012 2:07 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jan 13, 2012 2:07 PM in response to RMartin111

    I switched to an MBA 11 with a T-Bolt 27" display in November.  I thought I had bought the best of the best.  Until today I never connected the headaches and vision problems with the Mac.  After spending this much, I'm hesitant to take the loss of selling it but it is driving me nuts.

     

    So what is better - display - dim or brighten? Ambient light - dim or bright?

     

    Arg!

  • by Dave Nikkel,

    Dave Nikkel Dave Nikkel Jan 13, 2012 4:28 PM in response to ChanPfan
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 13, 2012 4:28 PM in response to ChanPfan

    Personally, I'm keeping brightness at about 50% on my 13" MBA.  I find that minimizes my issues, which were limited to eye irritation, no headaches.  I'm not sure ambient light makes much difference to me.  I just try to avoid a light source reflecting in the screen.

  • by ChanPfan,

    ChanPfan ChanPfan Jan 13, 2012 6:02 PM in response to Dave Nikkel
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jan 13, 2012 6:02 PM in response to Dave Nikkel

    Most of the time my MBA11 (mid 2011) is plugged into my T-Bolt 27" display.  Reconfiguring is hard to tell because like sitting in the same chair for a period of time, any change feels good. I've played with the brightness, tried the calibration, etc, but after a while the pain comes back. 

     

    The fonts seem really small compared to the 27" Acer I was using on my Dell Laptop. I used to use 10 pt. font in my email but on the mac I need to jack it up to 16 pt to feel as comforable. Then when people reply their font seems tiny.

     

    Is there a general rule of thumb or does it vary? Distance from screen, etc. is always a constant, as is the interior lighting. But the windows obviously impact the ambient light.

     

    Does anyone just 100% LOVE their T-Bolt 27 without any issues or does everyone have some kind of discomfort using a backlit monitor?

  • by Strapontin,

    Strapontin Strapontin Jan 14, 2012 7:03 AM in response to ChanPfan
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 14, 2012 7:03 AM in response to ChanPfan

    Hi.

     

    Concerning the fonts issues, could be explained trought the fact that Dell and Apple are not working on the same OS, so the fonts are not totally the same, as frames, etc.

     

    Concerning the backlight issue, I can ask you to do a test, if you want tot see if you strain, etc is linked to LED or something else : buy a matt filter for your screen (there is some on a well-known bidding website). It case it works and you do not have strain anymore, it comes from the glare of the screen.

    If it don't... well, welcome in the LED sensitive world.

     

    As one of the IT people I have asked about that lately, on "how to have a no-led display on my laptop", he answered "well, they've gonna disappear. You have to accept the idea". Is medical reason a possible "acceptance" topic ?

  • by MisterMojo,

    MisterMojo MisterMojo Jan 14, 2012 10:20 AM in response to Strapontin
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 14, 2012 10:20 AM in response to Strapontin

    Based on what I have read and personally experienced, LED-sensitive people should avoid the MacBook Air models and the 15" MacBook Pro with a high-resolution display, even if it is an anti-glare display.

     

    The eyestrain issues are worse with the high-resolution displays.

     

    My 13" Early 2011 MBP is working OK for me now. People tend to put-down its lower resolution display but I think the lower resolution makes it easier on the eyes. I don't have a problem using a lower-resolution display; unless you compare it side by side with a high resolution display you won't notice the difference. I use reading glasses that are optimized for using a computer and the high resolution displays still cause me problems.

     

    The Power Support anti-glare film that I recommended in earlier posts isn't the cheapest at $35 but I think that it is the best among the available films. It doesn't introduce color shifts or artifacts and its "graininess" is minimal; after using it for an hour it isn't even noticeable any more. It elimimates reflections and makes it much easier to use the MBP in any lighting. I also use the same film on an iPad and it is an improvement over the stock iPad display.

     

    My NEC 2490WUXi2 matte display also has some graininess but it isn't a problem for me. I've been spoiled by Apple's matte displays that are smoother in appearance, but when I sell my 24" iMac I won't be switching between an Apple and the NEC display anyway... In all other respects the NEC is superior to any Apple display that I have used.

     

    If I can figure out how to copy the calibration settings that I am using with my MBP display I will post the data in this thread. The current profile significantly improved my experience with the MBP. I also use Shades to dim the brightness. Unlike others in this thread, reducing the brightness to 50% isn't an option for me. It is simply too dark to use comfortably. I have found that adjusting the display brightness depending on the ambient light level makes a big difference in reducing eyestrain. I figure that I don't lower the brightness more than 25%. Adjusting the brightness depending on the ambient light level really makes a difference for me.

  • by rohanzsta,

    rohanzsta rohanzsta Jan 17, 2012 12:05 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 17, 2012 12:05 PM in response to RMartin111

    Does anyone have general tips on contrast and brightness settings?

     

    For LED-sensitive people, is it better to have high-brightness + mid-contrast on LED screens?

  • by jaminhubner,

    jaminhubner jaminhubner Jan 17, 2012 12:19 PM in response to rohanzsta
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 17, 2012 12:19 PM in response to rohanzsta

    I say just make it as close to reality (your surroundings) as possible. Too bright and your eyes get sore because its like staring into a flashlight (well, more like a strobe-light), and too dim and your eyes have to work harder to see what's there.

    ja

  • by jaminhubner,

    jaminhubner jaminhubner Jan 17, 2012 12:25 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 17, 2012 12:25 PM in response to RMartin111

    Yeah, the "ideal" for computer screens would be like kindle's e-ink. In fact I bought a kindle just for that reason: to read pdfs on there under natural light instead of reading them on a backlit screen (of any type). It has been a tremendous blessing since reading text on an LED screen is the worst. Maybe someday manufacturers will provide supply to meet the demand, with an e-ink HDMI screen of 22" or something. Oh heavens that'd be nice.

    Otherwise, until then, using projectors is much easier on the eyes since its (a) not direct from the light source to your eyes, and (b) its many feet away from your eyes, instead of 10-20 inches. Of course, there are challenges to that solution (bulbs are expensive to replace and burn out more often than in a computer screen; if you dont have good vision at 6-20 feet, you'll need to get glasses or something for that, etc.), but it may be worth it for those who really struggle with this, like myself.

    I currently type on a 10" led backlit netbook with a window immediatley behind it. I look outside every second i dont need to look at the screen; helps give the eyes a break in both focusing (because of distance) and light (because its sunlight..yummy). But, I still get headaches sometimes anyway! Bleh

     

    ja

  • by rohanzsta,

    rohanzsta rohanzsta Jan 17, 2012 12:46 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 17, 2012 12:46 PM in response to RMartin111

    Thanks for the responses. Definitely helpful.

     

     

    Has anyone had any luck reducing their eye strain using Gunnar Glasses? (http://www.amazon.com/GUNNAR-Computer-Eyewear-Phenom-Frame/dp/B001DUSXK0/ref=sr_ 1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1326832910&sr=8-6)

     

    I've heard a lot of positive reviews about these glasses, but I'm hesitant about its effectiveness for people with high sensitivity to LED backlight.

     

    If you've had success with these glasses, please let me know. Or even if you've had success with any other type of glasses (whether prescribed or not), I would love to hear about your experience.

  • by santoz64,

    santoz64 santoz64 Jan 30, 2012 9:13 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 30, 2012 9:13 AM in response to RMartin111

    Recently I got MBP late 2011 15.4" and got headache everytime I used it. This is my first led monitor notebook.
    By reducing brightness to 5-6 bar, tilt lcd to ~110 degree, keep the distance between lcd and eyes as long as my arm and keep my eyes height parallel to lcd, I'm able to get rid my headache

  • by santoz64,

    santoz64 santoz64 Jan 30, 2012 9:40 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 30, 2012 9:40 AM in response to RMartin111

    Sorry forgot, also turn off keyboard backlighting

  • by bdc23,

    bdc23 bdc23 Jan 30, 2012 9:56 AM in response to santoz64
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 30, 2012 9:56 AM in response to santoz64

    I have a early 2011 15" MBP with the high-res antiglare screen. 

     

    I am currently writing my thesis and spending about 8-12 hrs in front of my comp.  I would advise reducing the brightness to more than half and zooming in when reading any small font.

     

    I find the more I squint while reading text the faster I get headaches.

     

    I have also purchased apple's bluetooth keyboard and trackpad, which helps keep the MBP at a good distance while typing.

  • by nebulos,

    nebulos nebulos Feb 7, 2012 9:04 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 7, 2012 9:04 PM in response to RMartin111

    i had a G4 Powerbook for several years that I never had a problem with. after that finally died, I shopped extensively for a new mac over the last few years, looking at the new screens about a million times, all different models, in the stores, and also tried a 2010 antiglare MBP, as well as two different 2011 MBAs at home, before returning them.

     

    all the new screens look weird to me, high res, low res, glossy or not. my eyes simply do not like them. reading text, just looking at the screen at all, is unnatural and uncomfortable.

     

    i considered several explanations for this, including resolution (or pixel density, rather), font-smoothing, brightness, as well as LED backlighting. having become accustomed to my high res PC laptop, with the cleaner windows font-smoothing, i thought perhaps i'd 'outgrown' Apple's font smoothing, and lower pixel densities. however, while i still don't really know, my current theory, for my own problems, is that its the LEDs.

     

    i brought this up in the MacRumors forums and didn't get very many responses. seeing this gigantic thread is reassuring. i've taken up the mac search again, used this time, and have been deciding if i should go pre-LED vs multitouch trackpad. this thread sealed it for pre-LED.

     

    i used to stand there at the store thinking, "How are they selling these things?! I can barely even read on this!", knowing of course, that they were selling tons of them. i guess this doesn't affect everyone. i also guess there are a lot of people that don't realize they have a problem.

first Previous Page 14 of 160 last Next