RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by Kxtr73,

    Kxtr73 Kxtr73 May 25, 2014 3:42 PM in response to Scott98981
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 25, 2014 3:42 PM in response to Scott98981

    There are two types of HDMI->DVI adapters: passive and active. An active adapter converts signal, the passive is not. So probably you have an active adapter which is converting the signal (by built in processor) in a way which make it easier to your eyes ....

     

    http://www.overclock.net/t/721931/active-vs-passive-displayport-adapters-the-tru th

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 May 27, 2014 2:01 PM in response to Kxtr73
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 27, 2014 2:01 PM in response to Kxtr73

    Update:

    - I can use again my iPhone 4 if I hold it farther away from my eyes (it could be something was improved as well in iOS 7.1.1)

    - I couldn't use anymore the Vaio Pro 13 under Win8.1. I have downgraded to Win7 and changed to 16bit colour depth (same as on my work computer). By this I can use the Vaio but it is not so comfortable anymore as when I bought it and again if I push it farther away from my eyes, I can use it for some hours

    - Unrelated to computer use, I have discovered that beeing in a relatevely dark room with a bright window in my field of vision gives me eye strain after some hours in the respective room. No problem if the window is behind me. No problem with beeing outside in a sunny day even without shades

  • by spprt,

    spprt spprt May 28, 2014 11:52 PM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 28, 2014 11:52 PM in response to StefanD13

    Well, it was worth a try. So I upgraded a "good display" iPhone 4 to iOS 7.1.1 to see if they fixed the screen. Well, they did not. Burning eyes within seconds. The only fix is iOS 6, which is a complete fix. It's still like night and day. Dear Mr. Cook, you claim to care for minorities. Please have experts look at this issue, let them compare what has been changed in the video modes between iOS 6 and iOS 7. We don't have proper equipment and knowledge to do this on our own, but I'm sure anyone who suffers from this problem will gladly provide any information that could help.

  • by D-Mac23,

    D-Mac23 D-Mac23 Jun 4, 2014 1:33 PM in response to spprt
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 4, 2014 1:33 PM in response to spprt

    Forgive me if this has been asked already, but it's a large thread . I have a vestibular disorder and cannot tolerate LED backlighting (PWM technology) for very long. I'm aware of flicker-free external monitors, but does anyone know of any laptops that are flicker-free? Thanks in advance!

  • by EyePain20_20,

    EyePain20_20 EyePain20_20 Jun 4, 2014 7:21 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 4, 2014 7:21 PM in response to RMartin111

    Been here for a while hoping for a answer to this LED fiasco. Tried many electronic devices with very little luck. Eyes pull and hurt faster than before. Within a second or two.  

     

    What brings me here today, is, we recently purchased a new car. We didn't take one certain package because it had a 4.5" LED display (Reverse Camera and Stereo/CD player features) and I did not want to risk messing with my eyestrain. Especially when driving! Because I looked over the car in the day prior to purchasing, I did not notice that the dashboard lighting was LED backlit.

     

    This is absolutely horrible and frightening as I cannot drive the car at night. Well, not without driving with a headache/eye migrane. Websites mention, "how to install LED lights on your existing dash lighting". What I want, is the reverse. I want the backlight to be anything but LED.

     

     

    What would you do?

  • by LightSicknessPain,

    LightSicknessPain LightSicknessPain Jun 4, 2014 7:56 PM in response to EyePain20_20
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 4, 2014 7:56 PM in response to EyePain20_20

    EyePain,

     

      I would definitely do some online research to find more support communities.  I'm in a great one that has helped with a similar issue!!

     

    Google light sickness. Talk soon!

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Jun 5, 2014 6:48 AM in response to D-Mac23
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 5, 2014 6:48 AM in response to D-Mac23

    D-Mac23, I am not aware of any laptops as of yet that are flicker free and a quick Google search turns nothing up either. It does however turn up some uneducated opinion piece about how flicker free is useless....

     

    http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing/the-truth-about-anti-flicker-lcd-tech nology-1205231

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Jun 5, 2014 7:03 AM in response to EyePain20_20
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 5, 2014 7:03 AM in response to EyePain20_20

    EyePain20_20, any chance that was a Honda Accord? I had a hard time finding a car when my wife and I went shopping almost a year ago and that was one of the worst. Also, Cadillac has nothing but bright LED lighting in the interior, Toyota going this direction as well! My wife and I actually picked one of the worst exterior lighted vehicles because the interior is extremely pleasant for some reason, an Audi Q5, more expensive than we wanted to go but it fit our needs best. I almost never drive at night but if I do I can tolerate the interior of this vehicle, as for the head lights they are very bright white but the fog lights are still halogen so with these on they wash out much of the headlight issue. Of course I cannot look at the brake lights on any Audi while behind them or stare at the "Eyebrow" accent lights as they drive by me. I think car companies are using very cheap LED technology with bad flicker rates.

     

    There certainly is no cheap way to change the back lighting in your current car, silly question, have you tried to lower the brightness of it as low as possible?

     

    On another note since it doesn't appear this situation is getting much better the Audi is my wife's vehicle and I currently drive a lifted 2004 Jeep Wrangler. All the lighting in my jeep is that old school green style and I love it dearly! Also, I find being higher up takes me out of the direct line of sight of all the other vehicle lighting, this helps big time.

     

    One day coming soon we who are sensitive to LED automotive lights will be completely in trouble, the LED headlights are coming. There are "Upgrade" replacements on the market which are expensive right now but very soon they will be standard equipment and driving at all is going to be near impossible.....Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but better to be prepared than surprised, right?

     

    Hope this information is helpful!

     

    Jesse

  • by D-Mac23,

    D-Mac23 D-Mac23 Jun 8, 2014 4:08 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 8, 2014 4:08 PM in response to Jessiah1

    Thanks for looking, Jessiah. I found that article in my search as well - don't you love opinion pieces that fail to present any kind of fact-based argument?

     

    I'm starting to think I'll never be comfortable in front of a screen

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Jun 9, 2014 12:18 PM in response to D-Mac23
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 9, 2014 12:18 PM in response to D-Mac23

    Best news and lighting find yet! Here is something EVERYONE here should start following, it could change the lighting industry in a better direction than LED and Fluorescent lighting. I predict this company can and will make pleasant backlighting for our computing devices in the future, it may be awhile however there is hope!

     

    http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.com/technology-web/2014/06/06/finally-light-bul b-company-looks-to-steal-limelight-from-leds/?intcmp=obnetwork

     

     

     

    Cross your fingers this takes the industry in another direction!

     

    Jesse

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Jun 9, 2014 12:27 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 9, 2014 12:27 PM in response to Jessiah1

    Interesting article here: http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2014/05/finally-light-challenges-led-lighti ng-with-induction-replacement-lamp.html

     

    The real question is will it flicker or not? Any thoughts from anyone on this?

     

    Jesse

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Jun 9, 2014 12:31 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 9, 2014 12:31 PM in response to Jessiah1

    AND another interesting find when I tried to research if the Finally light bulb would be flicker free:

     

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/scientists-invent-flicker-free-shatterproof-li ght-bulb-1.1265573

     

     

    There is some hope in our future, hopefully?

     

    Jesse

  • by Livaman,

    Livaman Livaman Jun 10, 2014 1:35 AM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Jun 10, 2014 1:35 AM in response to Jessiah1

    Didn't read all answers, so maybe it was already discussed. But did anyone tried so called "flicker free" monitors from this list http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/flicker_free_database.htm

     

    P.S. I personally tried all LED monitors available in our office, but unfortunately none of them were good enough. So ended up using old Samsung 2243BW which is good for my eyes but not big enough.

  • by peter_watt,

    peter_watt peter_watt Jun 10, 2014 1:56 AM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 3 (910 points)
    Jun 10, 2014 1:56 AM in response to Jessiah1

    An article typical of this genre. scientists develop new light bulb, and they have one ten years old still working?? And a gain of 75% power per lumen over incandescents will not do much for battery life in a macbook pro, which lest anyone forget is supposed to be the topic.  Face it LEDs are here for the long run.  Automobile headlights, rear lights, dashboards, street lights, household bulbs, all led by 2020 latest.

  • by spprt,

    spprt spprt Jun 10, 2014 3:17 AM in response to Livaman
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 10, 2014 3:17 AM in response to Livaman

    From that list, I tried the BenQ EW2440L. I got terrible eye strain and pain, and headaches. I also saw some visible flicker without attached devices. I don't know what exactly is supposed to be "flicker-free" in this monitor, but it didn't help me.

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