RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Dec 29, 2014 3:25 AM in response to D-Mac23
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 29, 2014 3:25 AM in response to D-Mac23

    I'm now the happy owner of a MacBookPro 15 which I can use. After some hours I may get some burning eyes feeling but it stops immediately after I stop using the notebook.

    I still think for me the main cause is the rendering algorithm itself (provided no PWM), especially for fonts and especially the antialiasing. It seems to me Yosemite is better here than previous versions.

  • by Zini316,

    Zini316 Zini316 Dec 29, 2014 3:36 PM in response to Scott98981
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Dec 29, 2014 3:36 PM in response to Scott98981

    Scott,

     

    wwhen you first started using your iPhone 5 with ios8 did you only use it for a small period of time with the glasses? Example only when at home.  Or did you use the phone and go with the glasses no matter where you were?

  • by Scott98981,

    Scott98981 Scott98981 Dec 30, 2014 8:01 AM in response to Zini316
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Notebooks
    Dec 30, 2014 8:01 AM in response to Zini316

    iOS 8 on the iPhone 5 took about a week to adjust to. i didn't use the glasses and intermittently used the phone throughout the day. I had headaches and eye pain every day and then one day I didn't. With the iPad 6 (Air 2) I had to consciously power through using it with the glasses for increasing amounts of time over a three week period and eventually the symptoms slowly went away. I then felt confident I could use the iPhone 6 so I bought one. I had mild symptoms for 1-2 days and then they completely went away.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Jan 4, 2015 2:54 AM in response to kvoth
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 4, 2015 2:54 AM in response to kvoth

    Its good that these glasses help you, but they have not helped me, at least as a permanent solution. I own the Crizal Prevencia for some time now, but they only provide some comfort (which is a good thing). If I stay more than an hour on any tablet i get the symptoms as well.

  • by kvoth,

    kvoth kvoth Jan 4, 2015 7:49 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 4, 2015 7:49 AM in response to Exandas

    Exandas --

     

    I think all of us have different sensitivity levels as well as different things that we may be more sensitive to.

     

    To me, it's important for everyone to try Crizal Prevencia because, as you said, it still does provide you some comfort. For me they work brilliantly with my computer/phone, for you they may not help quite as much, but any bit of comfort is a plus for everyone here.

     

    I just want to get the word out so people know to try them.

     

    It'd be nice if everyone had signatures that said what they're using to help mitigate their symptoms. For me, it's Dell U2410 and Crizal Prevencia.

  • by CT,

    CT CT Jan 4, 2015 7:52 AM in response to kvoth
    Level 6 (17,883 points)
    Notebooks
    Jan 4, 2015 7:52 AM in response to kvoth
  • by jhk14031,

    jhk14031 jhk14031 Jan 4, 2015 11:05 AM in response to jhk14031
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 4, 2015 11:05 AM in response to jhk14031

    I have given up.

    Not even amber-colored glasses work.

    Not even AOC's anti-blue light monitor works.

     

    I tried using the AOC monitor with amber-colored glasses on.  It worked for a few days, but not any more.

    Now my eyes feel like they're getting beaten with a stick..

    I have also started experiencing double-vision, and my eyesight has deteriorated markedly.

    I will stop looking at LED monitors immediately.

    Hopefully my eyes will recover.

     

    From now on, I will stick with CCFL-backlit LCD monitors as long as I can, and look at LED/AMOLED screens as little as possible..

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Jan 5, 2015 1:06 AM in response to jhk14031
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 5, 2015 1:06 AM in response to jhk14031

    I think your eyes will recover after some time. My ophthalmologist did some tests on me and she told me that it seems that my eyes also get very dry after looking at led displays. So she prescribed eye drops and asked me stop the use of the displays that hurt me.

    Like you, I also got double-vision and furthermore i experienced increased blinking, probably the reaction of the organism to dry eyes.

  • by webhughes,

    webhughes webhughes Jan 5, 2015 12:07 PM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 5, 2015 12:07 PM in response to Exandas

    Do most of us who are unable to tolerate computer screens also get sick under fluorescent lighting, or when exposed to LED lightbulbs (the "squiggly" kind)? I've been fortunate enough to find a few devices I can tolerate (iPhone 6, Dell U2410 with f.lux installed, MPB Retina 2013 with f.lux installed) but the *much* larger issue I'm facing is that I can't operate under fluorescent lighting at all.

     

    Also, how extreme are your symptoms? I literally am unable to function after about 15 minutes of being exposed to overhead fluorescent lights. After a few minutes of exposure I feel a headache coming on, then I start slowly fading away, as though my brain is being frozen. It hurts like ****, but the pain of the headache does not bother me nearly as much as the inability to think clearly. I feel drugged, slow, mentally ******** even. I can't finish sentences or follow simple trains of thought. I can't remember anything anyone says to me. It's the cognitive equivalent of being paralyzed.

     

    For example, the other day I went to a hotel that was famous for hosting U.S. presidents. The hotel had intense fluorescent lighting. I was looking at photographs of each president, and I would read the president's name, then look up at the photograph, then I'd sit there trying to remember what name I'd just read 10 seconds ago and who I was looking at. This happened 3 times in a row. And it's not like we're talking about obscure presidents. I'm talking about Woodrow Wilson, Dwight D. Eisenhower, etc.

     

    I'm not even 30 years old. I have a JD from a reputable law school. There is no way on earth I should be unable to remember Woodrow Wilson's name after having literally just read it and made every effort I could to retain it, while simultaneously looking at a photograph of the man. Any healthy child could do this. I'm not sure if we're all suffering from the same thing here, but if any of you have experienced anything remotely close to this, you have my complete sympathy, and I hope we figure out a solution very soon.

     

    I'm going to try the Crizal Prevencia; I'll report back.

  • by jhk14031,

    jhk14031 jhk14031 Jan 6, 2015 3:09 PM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 6, 2015 3:09 PM in response to Exandas

    Thank you. That's some comfort.

    I hope I won't have to go to the doctor..

  • by gligorov.daniel,

    gligorov.daniel gligorov.daniel Jan 13, 2015 11:14 AM in response to webhughes
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 13, 2015 11:14 AM in response to webhughes

    Thanks for sharing this.

     

    I also have these symptoms like everybody else here, but why your post was special to me is cause you mentioned fluorescent lighting.
    Yeah thats issue for me too, 30min meeting at work without MAC under fluorescent lighting gives me burning eyes like I've been sitting whole day in front of the MAC. BTW I don't have that problem don't remembering stuff, its just the instant discomfort, strain and burn in the eyes when in front of the laptop, also iphone...I don't have this issue reading books outdoors for example.


    ...I don't think the issues is with Apple, I think this condition that I don't know the name for, can be developed over time, I was Retina user and iPhone5 user for over a year and then the problem started over night, cant sit even a minute on them without any of stuff listed bellow:


    Things so far I have tried and partially work (extended sitting capabilities from 1 min to ~4h with 5min break every 30min). In other words I can work fine half day, but then second half is a struggle, and then headache in the evening, and pain during sleep

    +0.5 Gunnar glasses (they have blue light blocker) - 30$ - SO FAR BEST SOLUTION FOR ME

    +0.5 prescription gunnar glasses with Carl Zeis lenses - 300$ - give me strain, waste of money

    +0.5 regular prescription glasses (doh they dont have blue-light blocker nor glare protection), they seem to work a bit

    eye drops - honestly don't feel much difference, its just relief the cold on the burning eyes

    flux software

    brightness on 3 bars

    no fluorescent lighting, no direct light, minimize glare


    Still need to try (after finding this thread):

    Old mate MAC

    external LSD monitor
    maybe Crizal Prevencia lenses


    ...have this issue over a year now :S











  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Jan 13, 2015 3:01 PM in response to gligorov.daniel
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 13, 2015 3:01 PM in response to gligorov.daniel

    I just want to share my experience with Crizal Prevencia. I don't wear glasses (my eye sight is perfect) and the eye doctor suggested that i try them and see if they help with my sensitivity to led lights.I had to buy a pair of glasses as well in order to get the Crizal lenses and the whole thing cost me around Euro 250.

    The glasses help me a bit but the comfort effect lasts only 15-20 mins more than if looking directly to the display without the glasses. A strange thing is that if i wear the glasses with the devices i currently use that give me no issues (Vaio with led display at home and Asus CCFL monitor at work) i feel dizzy after some time of use. On the other hand when i wear them in a room lit by leds i feel more comfortable, it feels the light is less harsh to my eyes.

    The eye doctor did not know how to explain the above.

  • by kvoth,

    kvoth kvoth Jan 13, 2015 3:17 PM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 13, 2015 3:17 PM in response to Exandas

    Exandas -- what's the longest period that you've worn the glasses straight for?

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Jan 14, 2015 12:23 AM in response to kvoth
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 14, 2015 12:23 AM in response to kvoth

    For a couple of hours, before i take a break.

  • by kvoth,

    kvoth kvoth Jan 14, 2015 6:11 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 14, 2015 6:11 AM in response to Exandas

    Your eye doctor may have mentioned this, but it takes time to get used to glasses. There's naturally a little bit of prism in glasses, which feels abnormal.

     

    When I first started wearing glasses it took 2 weeks of wearing them 24/7 before my eyes settled. It's likely your dizziness is due to getting used to glasses.

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