RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 Aug 18, 2015 6:19 AM in response to Random iPhone 6 User
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Aug 18, 2015 6:19 AM in response to Random iPhone 6 User

    This isn't entirely unhelpful advice, although we all already know it but thank you for at least being understanding. The awareness of this issue is growing even outside of our little circle and it needs to continue to do so or soon there won't be a device on earth some of us can use.

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 Aug 18, 2015 6:22 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Aug 18, 2015 6:22 AM in response to RMartin111

    Folks,

     

    A quick update. I've gotten a new phone, to which I have gotten perhaps 90% accomodated. It wasn't a quick accomodation, and in the process I got stuck with at least one extra phone (thanks, Verizon!)

     

    I'm using the HTC One m8 (Android). I've gotten to the point where it doesn't hurt my eyes. It took a long time. I had to use it for a minute here, then 2 minutes, then 5 minutes. Eventually I could use it normally. Even now I occasionally have to tilt it a little (it has a polarizing screen) to get it "just right" but it's better than most.

     

    My second choice was the iPhone 5s with a filter on it, but I really TRULY dislike the temporal dithering most of all.

  • by harrision_1234,

    harrision_1234 harrision_1234 Aug 18, 2015 11:25 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 18, 2015 11:25 PM in response to Gurm42

    @Gurm 42
    Yeah thats right. Thanks for responding to my contribution. So I think we accord about the cause of our issues.

     

    But how can we organize and make some Intel guys CARE? Cause it's also right that more and more people are affected from similar issues. Of course there will be also a very high dark number of people wo don't know why they get headache and vertigo all the time.

     

    Waiting till things will get better on their own isn't an option any more.

  • by Slacor,

    Slacor Slacor Aug 19, 2015 10:57 AM in response to harrision_1234
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Aug 19, 2015 10:57 AM in response to harrision_1234

    I have a VPS and would be happy to start a wordpress site or some kind of dedicated forum specifically for this. That way information could be organized a little better then a single thread. Something to point at that says "This is the problem and how to fix it" Maybe a list of "good" devices versus "bad" ones.

    Does that sound appealing to anyone?

     

    Edit:

    Also I recently started using a LGL34C Android phone. No problems with this phone which was a pleasant surprise to me!

  • by harrision_1234,

    harrision_1234 harrision_1234 Aug 23, 2015 11:09 AM in response to Slacor
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 23, 2015 11:09 AM in response to Slacor

    Well I've written to many different customers and I never got a good answer. I've also written an email to the european commission for digital economy and society. Maybe it will help if many european people here will do that.

    But the only thing we can do now is shearing our experience on a website and/or facebook group.

     

    So I'm on board slacor. 

  • by jtl999,

    jtl999 jtl999 Aug 26, 2015 6:00 PM in response to Slacor
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Aug 26, 2015 6:00 PM in response to Slacor

    Good idea Slacor. I've been thinking the same thing. I study programming/web security so this could be interesting. Contact me privately and we can discuss this. My email is jtl at teamclassified dot ca (you should be able to figure that out)

  • by Slacor,

    Slacor Slacor Aug 26, 2015 7:19 PM in response to jtl999
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Aug 26, 2015 7:19 PM in response to jtl999

    Ok cool.

    I've got a pretty good idea setup as a main forum for discussing all this along with a website for static general information

    Also as a central spot to point to all these threads.

     

    If you're interested email at ledstrain_9087 at ObjectMail.com

    Once it's setup I'll link to it here.

  • by spprt,

    spprt spprt Aug 29, 2015 10:36 AM in response to Slacor
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 29, 2015 10:36 AM in response to Slacor

    It's a very good idea.

    I hope it works, and I can't wait to join the new community.

    We could make large lists of software, settings, and devices.

  • by jtl999,

    jtl999 jtl999 Aug 31, 2015 7:16 PM in response to Slacor
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Aug 31, 2015 7:16 PM in response to Slacor

    2015 MacBook Pro 15 inch confirmed as flicker free, in store at Best Buy, by me (Guess I found my next laptop )

     

    Confirmed using Canon T5i at slow shutter speed.

     

    Unfortunately I have migraine from store lighting, so video will have to wait.

  • by Slacor,

    Slacor Slacor Sep 14, 2015 10:32 PM in response to Slacor
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Sep 14, 2015 10:32 PM in response to Slacor

    Ok!

     

    The forum is at https://www.ledstrain.org

    The entire forum is dedicated to solving (or at least mitigating) this problem.

  • by jtl999,

    jtl999 jtl999 Sep 14, 2015 10:34 PM in response to Slacor
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Sep 14, 2015 10:34 PM in response to Slacor

    Yup. I also helped with setup and security a bit

     

    It will be nice seeing other members there.

  • by max.kammerer,

    max.kammerer max.kammerer Sep 16, 2015 7:05 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 16, 2015 7:05 AM in response to RMartin111

    Hi All,

    intel guys ask to provide more specific/technic information on their forum about eye strain problem:

    https://communities.intel.com/message/329022#329022

  • by Technarch,

    Technarch Technarch Sep 20, 2015 4:35 PM in response to max.kammerer
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Sep 20, 2015 4:35 PM in response to max.kammerer

    I have a work issued HP laptop that is using Intel HD Graphics, a 4000 or 4400 I think, can't remember now. 4 something for sure.

     

    What I observed that was interesting was using the XP driver on the VGA port, viewing the background grey in Excel 2010 resulted in very visible to anyone roll/hum bars like on an old TV set.

     

    When work upgraded this same laptop to Windows 7 with a resulting newer driver, on the same VGA port in Excel 2010 with the same monitor, you no longer obviously see the roll/hum bars.

     

    I'm not convinced it's gone, but I find it interesting that with everything else remaining the same and the only thing changing was the OS and graphics driver, was enough to affect the appearance of the roll/hum bars.

     

    So this tells me that to a certain extent, that there is a software issue with the Intel HD stuff possibly in combination with hardware caring less about the VGA port. The roll/hum bars on XP were not visible on this laptop when I was using the displayport output instead.

     

    Also of note, the 3-4 years older prior laptop, also XP, Excel 2010, VGA port had a much sharper VGA output.. it was the series before the HD.

     

    On my computer at home, using an Intel HD 6000, the image on screen seems subtly steadier in Windows 7 than it does in the 15.04 version of Ubuntu installed in the test partition, hopefully this changes with later versions of the kernel. Intel maintains two separate driver teams.. the Linux team does not use the same code base as the Windows team so there are differences in how they do things. My home monitor uses temporal dithering and PWM at lower brightness, but is CCFL.

  • by jtl999,

    jtl999 jtl999 Sep 20, 2015 5:42 PM in response to Technarch
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Sep 20, 2015 5:42 PM in response to Technarch

    What model of HP laptop? Most HP business/Elite laptop screens have very high frequemcy PWM or none at all.

     

    How does it work with a digital connector (ie DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort?)

  • by EdJustaname,

    EdJustaname EdJustaname Sep 29, 2015 6:14 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 29, 2015 6:14 PM in response to Gurm42

    The main GPU manufacturers use the following dithering techniques:
    - NVidia > Dynamic Noise (less perceptible)

    - ATI/AMD > Dynamic 45/90 degree bars

    - Intel > Static 90 degree bars (most perceptible)

     

    Copied from: https://communities.intel.com/thread/31323

     

    This may explain why nVidia GPUs are liked so much here.

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