RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by Slunce,

    Slunce Slunce May 24, 2012 8:42 AM in response to eww
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 24, 2012 8:42 AM in response to eww

    Hello,

     

    I agree that I and other affected users are in (great) minority which is why this is only going to get fixed by either coincidence or will disappear with a new technology.

     

    I do not want to attack apple for its shiny stores which I have always admired - it was more of a sigh over the fact that in this consumption era all the gloss and glitter always takes precedence over anything else (cameras exaggerate colors, consumer hifi (ah that's a contradiction) exaggerate sound (bass and treble), TVs exaggerate brightnes beyond comfortable levels, etc.)

     

    In short to make something look good is these days is more important than to actually make it good, natural and real. As it simply sells better...

     

    But I agree I might be in minority even with my pesimistic view on today's world and its mainstream values

     

    Sorry for getting carried away from the topic.

     

    Best Regards,

    Petr

     

    EDIT: Speaking about minority (which we surely are anyway) also consider the fact that not everybody finds this thread, not everybody has got the need to contribute and there are people who returned the machine without actually being able to investigate that it was the screen - I personally know 2 people who returned it just for feeling unconmfortable and only when we discussed in detail they realised that it was this issue.

     

    So ... yes our presence here is in tens or hundreds, in reality it might be thousads (still nothing I know, but considering Apple is not that wide-spread in some parts of the world like Europe the number of affected users is guaranteed to grow going forward).

  • by LovesDogs0415,

    LovesDogs0415 LovesDogs0415 May 26, 2012 6:52 AM in response to Slunce
    Level 1 (4 points)
    May 26, 2012 6:52 AM in response to Slunce

    Thank you so much for updating this thread.  This will help those of us affected keep the pressure on Apple to be responsive to this problem.  I fear I am using my last Apple laptop if this can't be addressed.  I was shocked that I couldn't use the new iTouch.  I love Apple products, but I do not love headaches and severe eye strain.

  • by 4esperanza,

    4esperanza 4esperanza May 26, 2012 2:41 PM in response to Slunce
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 26, 2012 2:41 PM in response to Slunce

    I am so grateful to have found this site!  Like many of you, I couldn't figure out what was causing the headaches and vertigo after just a short time using the newer Macs.  I've tried laptops, iMac, everything seems to hurt my eyes, and quickly.  It seems if enough of us are sensitive to this, Apple might make at least one monitor that we can use.  I've been wanting to replace my ancient iMac, but it seems the only Apple option is to get a Mac Mini and use an external monitor without these problems. 

     

    I'd really appreciate further suggestions about the external monitors--I've not found anything "for around $300" that seems appropriate.

     

    Thank you so much for this community sharing!

  • by MisterMojo,

    MisterMojo MisterMojo May 26, 2012 8:16 PM in response to 4esperanza
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 26, 2012 8:16 PM in response to 4esperanza

    4esperanza wrote:

     

    I'd really appreciate further suggestions about the external monitors--I've not found anything "for around $300" that seems appropriate.

     

     

    You don't detail what you mean by "appropriate" but NEC has around thirty CCFL backlit displays that start at $300 MSRP.  I haven't had a lick of trouble with mine.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 May 31, 2012 12:04 AM in response to MisterMojo
    Level 1 (5 points)
    May 31, 2012 12:04 AM in response to MisterMojo

    I had a chat with a friend who dealt with some LED lighting products recently, he shared with me one possible reason why our eyes found it irritating looking at the LED backlight. He's not a very technical person and I'm not sure if I fully understand what he meant, but here's the idea:

     

    Basically, the light that LED emits is a pretty focused point of light source. It would cause dis-comfort when we try to look at a strong LED directly with our bare eyes. In order to ease that discomfort, some manufacturers would align the LEDs at an angle and/or add a filter in front of the lights to make the light more diffused. If that hasn't been done properly, our eyes would feel uncomfortable.

     

    So, the problem that we are experiencing could be due the LED alignment and/or the filter of the backlight.

     

    Put that idea forward a little, having a filter in front of the LED would inevitibly causes some loss of brightness. While generally this loss of brightness efficiency is probably low, Apple *may* still try to optimize (or make weaker) the filter in order to save a tiny bit more battery power. This "weaker" filter probably doesn't diffuse the light well enough to make our eyes feel comfortable.

    Or maybe the other way round, Apple may have used some stronger LED which the standard filter couldn't diffuse the light well enough to be comfortable to some of us. (brighter screens don't always mean better!!)

     

    I'm not sure if these make any sense, just some food of thought.

     

    By the way, I have come up with an idea. Perhaps we can stick those glare reduction films (those we stick on windows to reduce sunlight) onto the LED screens and see if that could ease our eyes.

    I haven't yet tried that myself, but I'm thinking of trying it when I'm less busy with work.

  • by peter_watt,

    peter_watt peter_watt May 31, 2012 12:38 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 3 (910 points)
    May 31, 2012 12:38 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    First time I have read this thread (new to Mac). Maybe I am too old for my eyes to notice a flicker,  maybe It's because I spent my working life since 1980 staring at screens from green and black, through colour CRT, TFT etc, and now to LCD with Mac and Playbook , but I LOVE the latest screens.

     

    Advice for anyone experiencing eye strain with new equipment, visit an optician first before joining this mass hysteria. Its probably the smaller fonts.

  • by Slunce,

    Slunce Slunce May 31, 2012 1:02 AM in response to peter_watt
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 31, 2012 1:02 AM in response to peter_watt

    For example I have been.

     

    But anyway - people joining this hysteria are quite often like me. They use a laptop/computer for considerable amount of hours every single day - and for number of years. I do for 8-10 hours a day for like almost 20 years. That includes CRT, even ordinary TV connected to Atari 800xe.

     

    Not once I have had any issues. However put a MBP in front of me for like 15 minutes and I get a headache. Exchange it for another laptop and let me star at it for 10 hours and I am just fine.

     

    It's not fonts. I use much higher resolution on my other equipment than MBP provides. No issues. It's not even the awful Apple font antialiasing I got sort of used to. It is THE screen.

     

    Whilst I agree that optician can reveal issue with one's eyes I tend to think that here we rather need a technician to reveal issue with the technology - which is undoubtly present even though it does not cause issue to all.

     

    Best Regards,

    Petr

  • by Slunce,

    Slunce Slunce May 31, 2012 1:05 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 31, 2012 1:05 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    This is very interesting even though I do not grasp what EXACTLY is supposed to be happening howvever that might explain why I do not feel exactly the same using Dell's LED screens (Latitude noteboks) and Apple's LED screens.

     

    Dell screen is much easier on my eyes and I noticed that its colors are washed out compared to Apple.

     

    Yet another variable ;-)

     

    Thanks for posting.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 May 31, 2012 1:31 AM in response to Slunce
    Level 1 (5 points)
    May 31, 2012 1:31 AM in response to Slunce

    Not sure which Dell screen you're using, but I guess the reason why the color on your Dell screen is relatively washed out could probably due to a TN panel rather than the IPS panels used by Apple

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 May 31, 2012 1:36 AM in response to peter_watt
    Level 1 (5 points)
    May 31, 2012 1:36 AM in response to peter_watt

    @Peter: That's good for you that you found the new displays to be great!

     

    I myself have done multiple eye checks and confirmed my eyes to be ok. I really wish to love the new displays too, but they are giving me genuine headaches...

     

    I'm sure this problem doesn't exists for everyone, as I know many people who enjoy the new Apple laptops dearly. But, it's also clear that the new displays are causing troubles to a (maybe small) portion of people...

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 May 31, 2012 2:37 AM in response to peter_watt
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 31, 2012 2:37 AM in response to peter_watt

    Peter,

     

    I've adjusted the fonts, I've been to the opticians - neither made things better. I haven't yet been to a psychiatrist to check whether or not I'm hysterical, though, so maybe that's the next step. Thanks ;-)

     

    In all seriousness, I'm glad you're experiencing no issues with the Apple displays. It's important for the very small minority of us who do to recognise that the overwhelming majority do not; however, the reverse, based on the totality of comments in this thread, seems also to be true.

  • by Slunce,

    Slunce Slunce May 31, 2012 6:48 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 31, 2012 6:48 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    @Eric - I've tried Latitude series (I used that for several months as a work laptop, however most of the time connected to a CCFL external screen. Sometimes I used it on its own and although I did not like it it was easier on my eyes than MBP laptops).

     

    Also note that no MBP laptop features IPS screen to this date. iPad yes, I think iMac might too - but not MBP.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 May 31, 2012 7:33 AM in response to Slunce
    Level 1 (5 points)
    May 31, 2012 7:33 AM in response to Slunce

    Oh sorry I mis-read your previous message! I thought you were comparing a desktop Dell LED monitor with the Apple Cinema Display.

    Yes, you're right. None of the Mac laptops got IPS, but the iPad and iMac do.

    So... looks like Apple's laptop displays can produce relatively good color when our eyes can look at them comfortably

  • by sholto3,

    sholto3 sholto3 Jun 7, 2012 5:47 AM in response to Pixel Eater
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 7, 2012 5:47 AM in response to Pixel Eater

    pixel eater,

     

    here's my case:

     

    old ccfl backlit sony vaio didn't seem to bother my eyes (but now totally obsolete)

     

    samsung q330 - led backlit laptop - horrible for my eyes (burning sensation + they go red but no actual damage according to optician). i could use it for short bursts before but now i can't even bare to switch it on. effect seems to be cumulative.

     

    brand new macbook pro 15" with high res-anti glare screen - led backlit - horrible for my eyes - its not quite as acute as the samsung but its obviously the same problem - I persevered for 10 days, even thought/hoped that the problem might be psychogenic, but now have returned to my senses and sent it back.

     

    v. annoying as all other aspects of the apple were great.

     

    just to be clear, i don't get dizzy or headaches, i just get really sore, burnt feeling eyes. although the symptoms are apparently consistent with simple dryness, eye drops do not solve the problem.

     

    all i know for sure from the 3 screens i've used is that CCFL was ok and LED is horrible. What i'm not 100% clear on is whetehr this means i am likely averse to all LED screens...

     

    looks from this thread like the ipad 3 causes similar issues... is this right?

     

    what about the macbook air - its LED but it seems to be a bit different from the macbook pro but has anyone actually tried it?

     

    what about earlier ipads?

     

    short of carying a seperate screen in a rucksack, i need a laptop - if LED is a no, no, can anyone tell me what the highest spec windows laptop with CCFL is that i can get second hand? - it seems that all new ones are LED...

  • by sholto3,

    sholto3 sholto3 Jun 7, 2012 5:50 AM in response to sholto3
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 7, 2012 5:50 AM in response to sholto3

    also worth noting is that the light from halogen heaters has a similar effect on my eyes and sitting in front of them makes me feel like i am being cooked to my core! maybe this sensetivity is somehow related??

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