RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

Close

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

  • All replies
  • Helpful answers

first Previous Page 29 of 160 last Next
  • by NightNinjaPDX,

    NightNinjaPDX NightNinjaPDX Jun 20, 2012 8:19 PM in response to iStrain
    Level 2 (256 points)
    Jun 20, 2012 8:19 PM in response to iStrain

    Is this a joke?

  • by MauiTechnoGeek2,

    MauiTechnoGeek2 MauiTechnoGeek2 Jun 20, 2012 8:20 PM in response to iStrain
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 20, 2012 8:20 PM in response to iStrain

  • by Pixel Eater,

    Pixel Eater Pixel Eater Jun 20, 2012 9:15 PM in response to MauiTechnoGeek2
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 20, 2012 9:15 PM in response to MauiTechnoGeek2

    Well I take it back, these kind of specifics are useful. It is understood Apple does not hand craft their panels out in the garage, the engineering as you call it is achieved by courting one of just a few companies capable of manufacturing today's panels. Graphics drivers have little to no bearing on the problems described in this topic. I do know the new retina display has been broken in teardowns, and cannot be considered servicable (except by Apple) due to the fine work it takes fitting all that in such a sleek form, but I wonder how iStrain is IDing these other screens

  • by NightNinjaPDX,

    NightNinjaPDX NightNinjaPDX Jun 20, 2012 11:15 PM in response to Pixel Eater
    Level 2 (256 points)
    Jun 20, 2012 11:15 PM in response to Pixel Eater

    I have always used the antiglare models (Early 2008, and the Early 2011 MacBook Pros) and they have been great on my eyes.  Maybe it is just the glossy screen that causes the eye strain

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Jun 20, 2012 11:48 PM in response to NightNinjaPDX
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Jun 20, 2012 11:48 PM in response to NightNinjaPDX

    This thread has been going on for almost 4 years and over 120000 views, the issue does exists. However, not every one has this issue. I believe you're one of them.

     

    For the rest of us who have problems these latest LED screens, while we haven't yet been able to isolate the root cause for the eye strain, I'm very sure that it's not a problem with the glossy screen and a antiglare version won't solve the problem.

  • by Pixel Eater,

    Pixel Eater Pixel Eater Jun 21, 2012 12:19 AM in response to NightNinjaPDX
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 12:19 AM in response to NightNinjaPDX

    I've never really failed to be amazed by the "it doesn't happen to me so it's not real" mentality.

  • by NightNinjaPDX,

    NightNinjaPDX NightNinjaPDX Jun 21, 2012 12:24 AM in response to Pixel Eater
    Level 2 (256 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 12:24 AM in response to Pixel Eater

    YAWN...  did I say it was not an important issue or suggest that this is not real, no I did not.  Don't put words in my mouth.  I haven't had the issue with the macs I have, but I am sure that the issue does exist, which honestly isn't a problem of Apple, since you have LCD dimmer buttons (F1 & F2).  This helps me sometimes, but maybe you have not figured that out yet. 

  • by MauiTechnoGeek2,

    MauiTechnoGeek2 MauiTechnoGeek2 Jun 21, 2012 1:22 AM in response to Pixel Eater
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 1:22 AM in response to Pixel Eater

    Back on p. 8 of this thread is Terminal command to reveal the specific screen hardware:

    ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6

     

    A blurb on it can be found here: http://osxdaily.com/2011/10/30/how-to-check-for-an-lg-display-in-a-macbook-air-a nd-make-it-look-better/

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 Jun 21, 2012 1:25 AM in response to NightNinjaPDX
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 1:25 AM in response to NightNinjaPDX

    Just a general plea: can those considering commenting on this thread in future please take the time to read earlier posts. That would prevent going over old ground again and again with very basic suggestions that have long ago been discounted in the context of this specific problem. EG glossy vs matte, adjusting the brightness etc etc.

     

    Thanks!

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 Jun 21, 2012 2:21 AM in response to MauiTechnoGeek2
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 2:21 AM in response to MauiTechnoGeek2

    Thanks iStrain and MauiTechnoGeek2 for such helpful posts.

     

    I guess, in the first instance, it would be useful for those who’ve experienced the symptoms described in this thread to share the information about their displays. It's simple to access, so it would help if those users could please do so.

     

    The display I get severe eye-strain from is a non-glossy Macbook Pro (late 2009) one. The display is LTN154BT08, which an internet search suggests is a Samsung build. I don’t have any other Apple products I can try, though as noted previously I had exactly the same problems when I used the 2008 Macbook, iPads 2 and 3, and iphone 3g and 4s (all now got rid of).

     

    What’s really interesting about iStrain’s experience is that he reports that he has had problems with displays manufactured for Apple by both Samsung and LG (eg the two Macbook Air, 13 inch, Mid 2011 models). Alongside his later experience with the Macbook Pro 15 inch of Early 2011, this would suggest that it isn’t accurate to think that all displays made by one manufacturer might potentially be ‘usable’ for the sufferers of this partcular eyestrain, but that some Samsung displays on some Apple hardware might be.

     

    Obviously, on the basis of one sufferer’s experience of only one ‘recent’ machine being ok, we have to be careful, but clearly this is potentially a new lead that merits further investigation.

     

    It’d be interesting to know which companies build the current gen Apple hardware displays – eg new MBPs (retina displays), iPad 3s etc. Is it possible that those of us who experience these symptoms could somehow identify and buy specific builds that might not cause us problems? Here's hoping...

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 Jun 21, 2012 2:44 AM in response to FNP7
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 2:44 AM in response to FNP7

    Sorry, I meant in the above post, that "some LG displays on some Apple hardware might be ok", and not some Samsung displays (this on the basis of iStrain's experience, and the fact that the LP154WP4-TLA1 display seems to be an LG).

  • by Slunce,

    Slunce Slunce Jun 21, 2012 6:55 AM in response to iStrain
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 6:55 AM in response to iStrain

    as strange as this might be, my current experience is in line with yours iStrain...

     

    I have just bought mid 2012 MBP having LTN154BT08 panel and although it DOES cause me motion sickness it does NOT give me any headaches as November 2010 17'' Macbook Pro was giving me instantly (I returned it).

     

    As I do need a new laptop I decided to go with Ivy bridge MBP and I expected to have issues - my intention is to use it occasionally and mainly with external display.

     

    What a surprise that it does not give me instant headache, but I am sure it might develop as part of ongoing motion sickness feeling and feeling that I've got difficulty to focus on the screen - if I continue to use it too often.

  • by Coufu,

    Coufu Coufu Jun 21, 2012 9:34 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 9:34 AM in response to RMartin111

    Does anyone with original eye strain problems have anything new to report about the retina display macbook pro? I want to get one, but my MBP 13" (2011) has been giving me eye strain and I don't want to land a bunch of money on a new one until I know that people have been reporting something positive...thanks.

  • by eww,

    eww eww Jun 21, 2012 9:42 AM in response to Coufu
    Level 9 (52,994 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 9:42 AM in response to Coufu

    Coufu: Bear in mind that you have 14 days after purchase to return a Mac, no questions asked. That should make it easy for you to test your purchase under the conditions where you'll actually be using it, rather than take anyone else's word for what you're likely to feel when using it, or try to figure out in the Apple Store what effect the machine is likely to have on you at home or at work.

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 Jun 21, 2012 9:50 AM in response to eww
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Jun 21, 2012 9:50 AM in response to eww

    Which isn't to say that we don't want to hear about user experiences with the retina display. Just that you needn't worry about return ability.

first Previous Page 29 of 160 last Next