RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by Amerix,

    Amerix Amerix Jul 9, 2012 4:13 AM in response to Eric Leung1
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    Jul 9, 2012 4:13 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    Hi,

    I started a post on Led backlighting improvement.

    Join it with your ideas and solutions.

    Amerix

  • by stanillee,

    stanillee stanillee Jul 9, 2012 9:26 AM in response to Skribilo22
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 9, 2012 9:26 AM in response to Skribilo22

    This sounds like exciting news. The retina MBPs are in short suPply around my neck of the woods.

    Are you getting any discomfort now? If you are then how's it different.

    Any more details on how this one feels would be greatly valued!

    Thanks

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Jul 9, 2012 4:07 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 9, 2012 4:07 PM in response to RMartin111

    Some of you who've experienced problems with a Mac connected to the monitor but not a PC: have you tried remotely accessing the Mac desktop from a Windows computer? I know there is software for that. Teamviewer for instance.

  • by Skribilo22,

    Skribilo22 Skribilo22 Jul 9, 2012 4:09 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Jul 9, 2012 4:09 PM in response to RMartin111

    Hello everyone, I'm here to give a little bit of an update.  I've been using the computer quite a bit since yesterday, and last night I did start to notice a little bit of strain...either that or I was just really thinking about eye strain and making myself think that it was an issue.  It was probably a little of both.  Anyway, I adjusted the display settings by changing the gamma to 2.6 and setting the white point at D50, and I also dimmed the screen.  It become much more comfortable.

     

    With the 2011 Pro (which I returned after a week) I also changed the settings, but I still found the machine to be too uncomfortable for use.  Even when I walked away, I was left with a pulsing headache and pain behind the eyes.  When I walked away from the Retina Pro after several hours of use, I found that the bit of strain went away quickly.

     

    In short, I do think that this computer will be usable to me.  It's not a perfectly comfortable display, but it seems to me to be much better than the regular Pros.  I think I'm still going to buy an external Nec monitor for when I'm at home on the computer for an extended period of time.  However, I also think that I'll be able to use this computer when I'm on the go without much of an issue.  I still have a soft spot for CCFL technology, as I feel that it is really easy to look at for long periods of time.  I can see why professionals like the bright, crisp colors of LED. Still, I do think that there are many people who might prefer a more comfortable display for their computer use.  It does seem that LED is the way of the future though; I use an LED TV without any trouble, but I sit fairly far from it, and I think that there are fewer points in a TV program where a lot of white is shown.  White seems to be the most bothersome LED color.  Anyhow, if you want to stick with Macs and are sensitive to LED, I do think that this computer could work for you.  I'll report back as I use it more to see if I still feel this way.

     

    These Retina models do seem difficult to find.  I had to go to several Apple stores, and I was actually really surprised when I found them in stock yesterday, as I had kind of given up on getting one this soon.

  • by dj_rag,

    dj_rag dj_rag Jul 14, 2012 2:04 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 14, 2012 2:04 PM in response to RMartin111

    So I have a 2007 mbp model A1211 and recently tried a mbp 2011 glossy and matte screens, and had to send both back because of migraines, eye strain and motion sickness after 15 mins on the glossy screens and about an hour on the matte one. I had hoped the retina display would be the answer to my prayers as I finally got to have a go today, and sorry to be the bearer of bad news for anyone in a similar position but I was getting the eye strain symptoms after just 20 mins, and really sporadic head pains. What a pity...

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Jul 15, 2012 1:25 AM in response to dj_rag
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 15, 2012 1:25 AM in response to dj_rag

    I had a go for the galaxy tab 7.7 with super AMOLED unfortunatelly with same result :( Somehow I have feeling that the better the display (and that is not ironically meant) the worse is for the eyes of some of us. So I'm oit of ideas here and the future is not looking great. Apple, help!

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 Jul 15, 2012 2:32 AM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 15, 2012 2:32 AM in response to StefanD13

    StefanD13 - I'm really surprised at that, though not disputing your experience at all. For myself, I can't use LCD/ LED displays (Apple or otherwise), but I've got a Super AMOLED display on my Samsung Galaxy Note, and I find it totally comfortable to use for extended periods. I guess, as LCD-averse types, that our differing responses to AMOLED might mean that other similar users could expect similarly differing experiences (which doesn't help you, I appreciate, but does mean that it doesn't necessarily follow that people who can't use LCD will automatically also have problems with all OLED options).

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 Jul 15, 2012 7:34 AM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Jul 15, 2012 7:34 AM in response to StefanD13

    I have to agree with FNP7. OLED is a completely different display technology from standard LED. The fact that it has the letters LED in it notwithstanding...

     

    I personally have no problems with OLED of any type, including Super AMOLED. That doesn't mean you don't, but I think that it's relatively unrelated to the issues you have with standard LCD+LED screens.

     

    Although, it could be some kind of sensitivity to the backlight? Maybe the blue light issues?

     

    Honestly I think that every terrible thing about displays comes together in the Macbook displays lately, but that it's a confluence of otherwise unrelated issues. When you combine LED (to which some people are sensitive) with ultra-high resomolutions (to which other people are sensitive) with PWM (to which other people are sensitive) you start getting some whackiness happening.

  • by stanillee,

    stanillee stanillee Jul 15, 2012 4:26 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 15, 2012 4:26 PM in response to Gurm42

    Whilst it is clear that everyone seems to have some differences in their experiences I'm not convinced that there is no connection between the symptoms from LED backlighting in MBPs and OLED screens - simply on the basis that the syomtoms I 'personally' experience are exactly the same (just as quick and horrible).

     

    If I was a betting man I'd  wager most people who've had these symptoms with MBP LED screens will have a similar reaction with OLED (although the connection and cause both may have nothing to do with LED in the end).

     

    The only Incentive to write this is a fear of someone purchasing as I did an OLED device thinking it would be different when it MAY not be.

     

    Check before buying!

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Jul 15, 2012 10:55 PM in response to stanillee
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 15, 2012 10:55 PM in response to stanillee

    There are CCFL backlit screens which I can use, as there are also ones which I cannot stand. The same with LED backlit.

    Having also the recent experience with AMOLED and also after measuring PWM at different devices, I think PWM is not the main reason, while though making it worse when present.

    The most striking is the difference between iPad 1 and 2. While iPad 1 is my main eBook reader, the iPad 2 I cannot even use for reading news. Having the devices side by side I see little difference, maybe the iPad 2 white looks a bit warmer (which theoretically should help) otherwise nothing. So cannot blame font rendering, resolution, font size, etc...

    I'm clueless...

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 Jul 19, 2012 7:16 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 19, 2012 7:16 AM in response to RMartin111

    This is really random, and I don't want to go off on a tangent, but does anyone else who has the LED sensitivity described across this thread ever experience any trouble sleeping at night?

     

    I do, and I'm wondering if it might be linked to my usage of the Mac, and my sensitivity to its display, because for me the timing of the issue coincides precisely - ie the issue first arose at a point in time when I bought my first LED Macbook, and I believe is worse now after days where I've used my LED MBP.

     

    Obviously, correlation is not causation, and this is a complex area where simplistic speculation is unhelpful and unfair, so I'm not saying it must be the Mac, because I can't know that to be the case - more than likely, it isn't, but I'd just be interested to hear if anyone else with LED sensitivity has experienced similar issues (ie if they sometimes experience insomnia with no other obvious cause, and they are also acutely sensitive to LED displays, Mac or otherwise).

     

    Thanks

  • by MauiTechnoGeek2,

    MauiTechnoGeek2 MauiTechnoGeek2 Jul 19, 2012 11:24 AM in response to FNP7
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 19, 2012 11:24 AM in response to FNP7

    The effect of LED computer screens on sleep has actually been documented:

    Cajochen, et al. 2011. Evening exposure to a light-emitting diodes (LED)-backlit computer screen affects circadian physiology and cognitive performance. J Appl Physiol 110: 1432–1438.

     

    "A 5-h evening exposure to a white LED backlit screen with more than twice as much 464 nm light emission ... than a white non-LED-backlit screen ... elicited a significant suppression of the evening rise in endogenous melatonin and subjective as well as objective sleepiness, as indexed by a reduced incidence of slow eye movements and EEG low-frequency activity (1–7 Hz) in frontal brain regions."

     

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2011/03/10/japplphysiol.00165.2011.full. pdfEvening

  • by FNP7,

    FNP7 FNP7 Jul 20, 2012 2:21 AM in response to MauiTechnoGeek2
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 20, 2012 2:21 AM in response to MauiTechnoGeek2

    MauiTechnoGeek2. Thanks very much for this – it’s really interesting, and in line with other stuff I’ve read.

     

    The weird thing is that I don’t use any electronic displays at all in the evenings, eg after 5pm, and I use my Mac in the day, all day, with a CCFL display (so never LED directly). But, having read this and other research, I’m now thinking that the type of the display is less important than the amount of blue light emitted (and length of exposure to it). I’m also pretty convinced that even daytime exposure to artificially high levels of blue light, ie higher than in normal daylight, might somehow be resetting or disturbing my sleep patterns. I’m going to try keeping the colour temperature permanently lower, by using f.lux

     

    If anyone is interested/ affected, there are more academic papers here: http://stereopsis.com/flux/research.html

  • by Pixel Eater,

    Pixel Eater Pixel Eater Jul 20, 2012 2:49 AM in response to FNP7
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 20, 2012 2:49 AM in response to FNP7

    I've been using f.lux since February or so and it has easily been the biggest improvement in my issues, besides finding a flickerless/pwm-free matte display. Prior to that I had gone a few months hardly touching a computer. I keep it at the point where the display doesn't start to look jaundiced, but is warm as possible while retaining good whites and something like good color accuracy. The detail I noticed the most is the reduction in the tell-tale eerie blue glow typically cast on the walls and blinds when people watch TV in a dimly lit room. Speaking of, I also try to keep a balance of warm incandescent lighting.

  • by mvanier,

    mvanier mvanier Jul 30, 2012 2:09 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 30, 2012 2:09 PM in response to RMartin111

    I've been reading the archives of this discussion, because I had a recent experience which made me realize that I'm one of the LED-sensitive.  It was a Google Nexus 7 tablet that caused me horrible eyestrain, but I see the same problem with iPads, recent Macbooks, IMacs, and most recent monitors (though curiously, not with my iPhone 3GS).  It seems like almost any LED-backlit monitor (other than the iPhone) causes me problems, and almost no CCFL-backlit monitor does.  Here is a really interesting video that may shed some light (no pun intended) on the issue:

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lvtqqlhem8

     

    You look at that, and you wonder how LED backlighting ever got popular.  It's just an inferior technology.  Fortunately, it's inferior in other ways as well: LED backlit monitors do not have as good a spectrum of colors as CCFL-backlit monitors (at least, the typical white LED backlit monitors don't; RGB LED-backlit monitors are probably just as good, but they are extremely expensive and extremely rare).

     

    For now, the solution is simple: use an external monitor, and make sure that it is CCFL backlit.  There are still CCFL-backlit monitors being made.  Dell makes some good ones, e.g. the U2410 (about $500) and the U2711 (about $1000).  There are also cheaper ones if you aren't worried about extremely accurate colors.  For me, $500 is a small price for preserving my vision.  Also, a new CCFL monitor should be good for at least 5 years, maybe more, and by then hopefully we'll have better alternatives.

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