RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by jondrac,

    jondrac jondrac Oct 20, 2012 1:22 PM in response to dmdimon
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 20, 2012 1:22 PM in response to dmdimon

    That's fine, I just wish I could find a solution.

  • by dmdimon,

    dmdimon dmdimon Oct 20, 2012 1:28 PM in response to jondrac
    Level 3 (840 points)
    Oct 20, 2012 1:28 PM in response to jondrac

    hmm. just to check - have you something like warm-colored sunglusses? yellowish, orange may be - anything with warm tone and comfortable to you? If so - try with them.

  • by jondrac,

    jondrac jondrac Oct 20, 2012 1:31 PM in response to dmdimon
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 20, 2012 1:31 PM in response to dmdimon

    I don't, but if I have to wear colored glasses while using my computer I would probably rather just buy a different computer. Unless I have the same problem with other computers, that is. Thanks for the suggestion though.

  • by MauiTechnoGeek2,

    MauiTechnoGeek2 MauiTechnoGeek2 Oct 20, 2012 10:10 PM in response to jondrac
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 20, 2012 10:10 PM in response to jondrac

    A paper came out in 2011 that gives one pause:  "Light-emitting diodes (LED) for domestic lighting: Any risks for the eye?" by F. Behar-Cohen, et al. Progress in Retinal and Eye Research 30 (2011) 239-257.

     

    It concludes:

     

    "LEDs will most probably become the main light sources. Beside blue LEDs that are used commonly for decorative purposes, white LEDs provide retinal exposures to violet, indigo and blue light at much higher levels than in previous light sources. This is the first time that the population will be exposed to such substantial blue light. Whether such retinal exposure will induce increased macular degeneration? Aggravation of glaucoma neuropathy? Perturbations of circadian cycles? Nobody can say today, but when analyzing all the knowledge that has been accumulating on blue-light hazards, we cannot rule out a yet undiscovered risk for chronic day-long, life-time exposure since photochemical damages may not induce any visible changes but cumulatively induce photoreceptors loss. There is an urgent need for a better evaluation of potential light toxicity, depending on the different artificial light sources available, and upon chronic exposure of different populations to define clear guidelines for domestic light manufacturers."

  • by Slunce,

    Slunce Slunce Oct 20, 2012 11:02 PM in response to jondrac
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 20, 2012 11:02 PM in response to jondrac

    Hello,

    I can't explain but I have also noticed that I have quite serious dizzyness and sore eyes EXCEPT when watching movies. I can watch a whole movie without an issue (like somebody else here, see old posts) but doing anything else is pain. Reading and web surfing is worst but it is bad in general.

     

    As for me it is definitelly not high resolution, I am using other screens with higher resolution without an issue.

     

    What puzzles me even more is that my connected external CCFL monitor seems to be harder than my old CCFL notebooks or combinatios of PC and external CCFL monitor.

     

    Like there is something wrong in the Mac.

  • by carl wolf,

    carl wolf carl wolf Oct 20, 2012 11:58 PM in response to dmdimon
    Level 6 (14,625 points)
    Oct 20, 2012 11:58 PM in response to dmdimon

    "I have MD in computer engeneering - so I know what you are talking about...I see here people with hipersensibility to blue spectrum, with hipersensibility to light and with sensibility po flicker."

     

    Perhaps, Doctor, you know what you are talking about, but you have a difficult time with your spelling ("engeneering", "hipersensibility"), regardless of sensibility po flicker.

  • by Dovez,

    Dovez Dovez Oct 21, 2012 4:01 AM in response to Slunce
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2012 4:01 AM in response to Slunce

    I recommend to everyone who has problems looking at modern Apple products to try out all possible non-native resolutions. You must try this if you are serious about finding a solution.

  • by Dovez,

    Dovez Dovez Oct 21, 2012 4:10 AM in response to jondrac
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2012 4:10 AM in response to jondrac

    The post from jondrac, where he says that everything except gaming causes him discomfort, could perhaps be explained by the screen resolution changing with the games. Jondrac, you need to find out what graphic card settings a game uses and set these settings as general ones. The most obvious one is the resolution setting. If one non-native resolution didn't help, try a second one!

  • by dmdimon,

    dmdimon dmdimon Oct 21, 2012 8:03 AM in response to carl wolf
    Level 3 (840 points)
    Oct 21, 2012 8:03 AM in response to carl wolf

    perhaps I know english better, than you - russian

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Oct 21, 2012 12:34 PM in response to Slunce
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2012 12:34 PM in response to Slunce

    "What puzzles me even more is that my connected external CCFL monitor seems to be harder than my old CCFL notebooks or combinatios of PC and external CCFL monitor.

     

    Like there is something wrong in the Mac."

     

    You are NOT the first to say this. This is a very interesting and very puzzling observation.

     

    I want to know, has anyone who has observed this tried the offending Mac with a Windows installation?

     

    And can you tell me which cable(s) you have used to connect the Mac and the PC to the monitor?

  • by iStrain,

    iStrain iStrain Oct 21, 2012 2:03 PM in response to iStrain
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2012 2:03 PM in response to iStrain

    Four months ago, I posted here a list of macbooks that I felt uncomfortable with https://discussions.apple.com/message/18704684#18704684. Unfortunately, I omitted one detail that seemed irrelevant to me back then because I was convinced that we are dealing with a hardware issue here. This weekend after upgrading my aging MacBook Pro from Snow Leopard to Mountain Lion and experiencing the same symptoms as I did with newer Apple hardware, I realized that software plays significant role in this problem. So, here is the updated list:

     

    • MacBook, 13", Mid 2009, Leopard - no issues
    • MacBook Pro, 13",  Mid 2010, Snow Leopard - no issues
    • MacBook Air, 11", Mid 2011, Lion - eye strain, headaches, motion sickness
    • MacBook Air, 13", Mid 2011, Lion, panel LP133WP1-TJA1 - eye strain, headaches, motion sickness
    • MacBook Air, 13", Mid 2011, Lion, panel LTH133BT01A03 - headaches, motion sickness
    • MacBook Pro 13",  Early 2011, Lion - headaches, motion sickness
    • MacBook Pro, 15", Early 2011, Lion, panel LTN154BT08 - motion sickness
    • MacBook Pro, 15", Early 2011, Snow Leopard, panel LP154WP4-TLA1 - no issues
    • MacBook Pro, 15", Early 2011, Mountain Lion, panel LP154WP4-TLA1 - headaches, motion sickness

     

    The last two entries are the same notebook! So, I am not sure what Apple changed between Snow Leopard and Lion, but it seems to negatively affect my ability to work with Mac OS X. Software problem could also explain how so many different panels from different manufacturers with different resolutions and sizes can affect me the same way.

     

    I can think of four factors related to display that are controlled by software: color profile, font rendering, refresh rate and temporal dithering. I don't think it's color profile because I tried to change color profiles and calibrate displays and it doesn't seem to have any significant effect. Font rendering doesn't seem to be the culprit either because turning font smoothing on and off doesn't help. I don't know how to measure refresh rate for the internal monitor, so I cannot rule this out just yet. What I can clearly see is that temporal dithering changed between Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion. The gradient on Lagom.nl looks very different on Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion. The temporal dithering theory can also explain why many users here (including me) can watch movies and play some games on new laptops, but have difficulties looking at static images and text.

     

    Last but not least, I am software developer and I really need to upgrade to Mountain Lion, so if anyone from Apple reads this and needs a guinea pig to figure this issue out, I would gladly fly to California, sign any NDA required, and spend as much time as needed testing different display settings. Just let me know.

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Oct 21, 2012 2:26 PM in response to iStrain
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2012 2:26 PM in response to iStrain

    iStrain, as thorough as ever! :)

     

    Could this be major progress in the right direction? I think this plays well with recent discoveries of using non-native resolutions. Maybe also different versions of iOS play a part with problems people have with mobile devices?

     

    I hope your post finds it's way to someone in charge of at least something. Heck, if we can pinpoint the issue maybe some software remedy can be conjured up.

  • by EyePain20_20,

    EyePain20_20 EyePain20_20 Oct 21, 2012 7:31 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2012 7:31 PM in response to RMartin111

    This may indeed be software related.

    I posted last week that I also had issues with other products that affected my eyes the very same way as with 2012/2011 mac laptops.

     

    The issues were Sony Bluray players with the same menu software on each. I would experience eye strain on the newer, later models. (older models did not bother me at all). The PS3's menu I could not read either without experiencing the same eye strain issues.

     

    Also, Windows 7 bothered me where as WinXP did not bother me on the same PC connected the very same way.

     

    These two issues are very similar to the macbooks causing eye strain.

     

    I have 20/20 vision after being examined by a optometrist and a neuro ophthalmologist. Could it be that I/we are seeing something that others are not? Because our eyes are 'that' good, they are causing us grief.

     

    I always left it alone and thought it was the LED backlighting, but my bluray players were viewed on a LCD TV with CCFL backlighting. And my PC had a CCFL backlight as well.  Now I believe it has to do with the text and/or the resolution.

    Or a frequency issue.

  • by Christopher.B.,

    Christopher.B. Christopher.B. Oct 21, 2012 7:44 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Oct 21, 2012 7:44 PM in response to RMartin111

    If this hasn't already been posted, check out f.lux - http://stereopsis.com/flux/

     

    It might help with your eye strain sensitivity. Very nice, especially at night or if you like working in a dim or dark room. Or if you just like a warmer display.

  • by Dovez,

    Dovez Dovez Oct 22, 2012 3:30 AM in response to Christopher.B.
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 22, 2012 3:30 AM in response to Christopher.B.

    Has anyone tried if the problem is still there if you use safe mode?

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1455

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