RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

Close

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

  • All replies
  • Helpful answers

first Previous Page 41 of 160 last Next
  • by Dovez,

    Dovez Dovez Nov 4, 2012 10:16 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 4, 2012 10:16 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    Could you try the camera swing test with a non-native resolution on your MacBook Air and compare the results with the results of a native resoolution? Would both be interlaced?

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Nov 4, 2012 11:58 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 4, 2012 11:58 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    The interlaced pattern you're seeing when you zoom in is just the pixel grid.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Nov 4, 2012 6:27 PM in response to CoreLinker
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 4, 2012 6:27 PM in response to CoreLinker

    Doves, CoreLinker: I have done the following tests:

     

    1. Swinging the camera horizontally against a vertical line in native resolution (the standard swing camera test). I see a fat line interlaced.
    2. Swinging the camera horizontally against a vertical line in NON-NATIVE resolution. I see a fat line interlaced. The result of this test seems to be identical to Test 1.
    3. Swinging the camera vertically against a horizontal line in native resolution. I see a fat horizontal line with vertical interlace!
    4. Taking a photo of a vertical line normally without swinging the camera. I see a solid vertical line.
      I too had thought that it might be the pixel grid I was seeing, but the solid line seems to dis-proof that. I should see a dotted line if the camera picks up the pixel grid.
  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Nov 5, 2012 1:25 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 5, 2012 1:25 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    Came across this article today: Bright Light Worsens Migraine (http://www.livescience.com/6018-bright-light-worsens-migraine-headache-pain.html )

     

    I wonder if our problem relates to some kind of migrane, and the LED light is a trigger to our migrane neurons.

    It sounds so similar to our problem when it mentions that the migrane neurons are activated even after the light are removed, and "patients say that their headache intensifies within seconds after exposure to light, and improves 20 to 30 minutes after being in the dark".

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Nov 5, 2012 1:32 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 5, 2012 1:32 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    Eric, there are two reasons why you're not seeing the grid.

     

    1) You're not holding the camera still. Use a tripod or prop it onto something.

    2) Glare. Increase the shutter speed.

     

    Believe me, it IS the grid. :)

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Nov 5, 2012 2:54 AM in response to CoreLinker
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 5, 2012 2:54 AM in response to CoreLinker

    Hahahaha, ok!

    I'll do that test again later to convince myself

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Nov 7, 2012 12:52 AM in response to Pixel Eater
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 7, 2012 12:52 AM in response to Pixel Eater

    Hi to everyone, i experienced the same feeling of diziness as with the MBP when i used my ccfl screen after an upgrade to win 8 in my job pc. With win 7 pro i could work for many hours without a problem, but as soon as i upgraded to win 8, 30min of work causes me blurry vision and diziness. Is it possible that software is the cause to macs as well instead of led backlight?

  • by Dovez,

    Dovez Dovez Nov 7, 2012 2:04 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 7, 2012 2:04 AM in response to Exandas

    There can be no doubt anymore. It is not a backlight problem. The problem lies in how the OS or graphic card drivers are controling the content of the LCD screen.

     

    I thought that the problem might have been in the quantity of LED, which might have been set to flicker not in synch, but if the same issue persists with CCFL backlights, which on avarage have only 2 tubes, then that can't be the case. With pixels, however, you can easily control them individually to do anything you want if you are an OS.

     

    I think installing an older graphic card driver might solve it. Exandas, I know it's too much to ask, but could you see if looking at the BIOS screen causes dizziness. The Windows drivers should not have loaded yet when you are in the BIOS menu.

  • by iobe,

    iobe iobe Nov 7, 2012 2:09 AM in response to Dovez
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 7, 2012 2:09 AM in response to Dovez

    I have another anecdote that speaks for the issue being in software:

     

    My 2011 MBP anti-glare has worked very well the whole time, both in OS X, in Parallels and in Bootcamp with Windows 7. A few days ago I installed Windows 8 in Bootcamp and now I get eye strain from it. Back in OS X I'm still fine.

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Nov 7, 2012 2:31 AM in response to Dovez
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 7, 2012 2:31 AM in response to Dovez

    With all respects, I disagree the believe that the problem lies only in software.

     

    There have been so many cases reporting that changing a LED montior to a CCFL monitor could ease the eye strain immediately, and that's clearly a hardware issue.

     

    I think there are multiple causes for our eye strains, Windows 8's (faulty (?)) graphics driver could be one of them.

     

     

     

    iobe: May I know if you get the same eye strain if you use Windows 8 in Parallels?

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Nov 7, 2012 2:58 AM in response to Dovez
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 7, 2012 2:58 AM in response to Dovez

    My eyes have not fully adjusted from the effect of using my desktop for a few hours, but i think that my eyes feel much more comfortable when viewing the BIOS screen! I will check it again tomorrow when my eyes have adequately rested.

    It seems it could be the software, but why? Is it font rendering?

  • by iobe,

    iobe iobe Nov 7, 2012 3:27 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 7, 2012 3:27 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    Eric:

    I don't have any problems with Windows 8 in Parallels.

     

    Regarding hardware vs software - software controls what the hardware does, so a change in software could cause the hardware to do something else.

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker Nov 7, 2012 7:38 AM in response to iobe
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 7, 2012 7:38 AM in response to iobe

    Has anybody tried changing the color bit settings, see if that would help?

  • by Eric Leung1,

    Eric Leung1 Eric Leung1 Nov 7, 2012 8:29 PM in response to iobe
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Nov 7, 2012 8:29 PM in response to iobe

    If there's no problem with Windows 8 in Parallels, then it sounds like it's the graphics driver problem when Windows is running natively.

    Perhaps can try different color bit like what CoreLinker has suggested?

    Or maybe try different acceleration settings? Or clear type font settings? I guess that might change the sub-pixel rendering in some way.

     

    Regarding hardware vs software, I agree that software can controls what the hardware does to some extent. But from my personal experience as well as many others who reported about the significant improvement after changing their LED to CCFL displays, I believe that's pretty sure to be related to the hardware rather than software.

     

    Again, I believe there're more than one cause for our eye strains.

  • by Dovez,

    Dovez Dovez Nov 8, 2012 2:42 AM in response to Eric Leung1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 8, 2012 2:42 AM in response to Eric Leung1

    So far I see two problems: PWM and this mysterious software problem.

     

    Perhaps this software problem only is there with certain monitors. It could be that some monitors support this software manipulation and others don't. So older CCFL LCDs could be immune against  this problem, while newer LEDs will all have this problem. It's only a theory, but it could be. I think it could be that it is not so much the operating system that is fault as the drivers that come with it. I've heard people being fine with Windows XP but not with Windows 7 with the same hardware. Now I read about Windows 7 being good, but the problem satrting with Windows 8. This makes me think that any OS could have this problem with the wrong graphic card drivers. Installing the oldest drivers might remove the problem. I would also try 256 color mode. No dithering should be happening there.

first Previous Page 41 of 160 last Next