RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by mvanier,

    mvanier mvanier Feb 14, 2013 12:39 PM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 14, 2013 12:39 PM in response to Exandas

    Yes, the iPhone (4S) is my only cell phone and I use it constantly all day.  People may vary in their ability to absorb and/or retain lutein/zeaxanthin, so it seems logical for those of us with sensitivity to blue light to keep our levels up.  BTW I still strongly recommend orange bell peppers for zeaxanthin (they taste good too!).  I like to put kale and bell peppers in my juicer along with other stuff a few times a week.

     

    Boy, this discussion has really gone far afield now :-)

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Feb 15, 2013 1:21 AM in response to mvanier
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 15, 2013 1:21 AM in response to mvanier

    I will try to increase the levels lutein/zeaxanthin to see if this helps and come back.

     

    I think this discussion will keep on going, since a proportion of the population shows an intolerance to the new led screens. In the company I work (accountancy firm), IT dpt changed almost all the old laptops and screens (macs and other brands) in Y2012, and strangely more people are complaining about eye strain and headaches. They are not the majority but it is a sample you cant ignore. Actually there are people coming to me and ask me about it. I feel justified in a way because when I first told our IT department about my problem, they laughed at me.

  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Feb 15, 2013 1:33 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 15, 2013 1:33 AM in response to Exandas

    I would like to say in the most polite way, that this conversation needs a reality check.

     

    I have never experienced any symptoms when reading a book, even when reading for hours and trough the night.

     

    A display should be like a book.

     

    My current HP zr2740w is like a book. It does not cause any fatigue.

     

    But my Dell Latitude E6430 is killing my eyes in 1 hour, when I need to use the display in a meeting or at home.

     

    So we should not spend time on gimmicks like antioxidants or using programs like flux. Flux might be good for helping to reduce blue light that disrupts our circardian cycles, but it does not help with they eye strain and migraine type symptoms that some experience.

     

    So what ever the problem is, it's not lack of vitamins and antioxidants. A display should be like a book that can be viewed for hours without any fatigue.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Feb 15, 2013 2:55 AM in response to mojarvinen
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 15, 2013 2:55 AM in response to mojarvinen

    I do agree, but LED screens are in the market from 2008-2009 (even maybe earlier) yet manufacturers have not produced any LED screens that i can use. I am an accountant and i work in front of a laptop screen for the 95% of my working time. As i move around a lot, i use mobile phones to check emails, plus i need to use my laptop to the clients i visit. Up to new i have not found any new laptop that has a comfortable screen for me. Also i cant carry with mean external screen from the lists that is proposed in various sites.

    So any hint, from my perspective is welcomed. Natural chemicals in our bodies is probably the reason why some people tolerate the screens and some others dont.

    Obviously after 20 years in the profession (with no problems in using cell phones or computers up to now) i cant make make a career change. If i cant use the technology for more than 30mins, what i am going to do, move to agriculture for a living?

  • by scartacus,

    scartacus scartacus Feb 15, 2013 3:03 AM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 15, 2013 3:03 AM in response to Exandas

    Could someone with a mid 2010 Macbook pro please tell me what brand their screen is? LG or Samsung?

     

    My original screen gave me no problems. The LG replacement causes me eyestrains and headaches.

     

    Thanks 

  • by LovesDogs0415,

    LovesDogs0415 LovesDogs0415 Feb 19, 2013 3:34 PM in response to scartacus
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Feb 19, 2013 3:34 PM in response to scartacus

    Has anyone here had any problems with the Kindle Paperwhite?  It has an LED screen, but the light comes from the side not behind the screen, aimed at the eyes?  Thank you.  http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Paperwhite-Touch-light/dp/B007OZNZG0/ref=sr_tr_sr_1 ?ie=UTF8&qid=1361316819&sr=8-1&keywords=kindle+paperwhite

  • by applesuper,

    applesuper applesuper Feb 21, 2013 6:34 AM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2013 6:34 AM in response to LovesDogs0415

    Absolutely no problems with the paperwhite here, on the contrary, it's the next best thing to paper I have used, maybe even better than paper in many ways. That's because the technology for e-ink is created to be easy on the eyes, the light is shown towards the screen not behind it. It's the best thing we have so far, until liquavista materialises.

     

    I have a question too: Is anyone using the recently released imacs and can they get back to us on how the feel about the screen? There was an excellent post a while back rating the devices a user owned from best to worst, and they rated the ipad 3 despite the retina as worse overall in eyestrain than the ipad 2, and that would be my impression as well, maybe due to the double the quantity leds they use to light it up due to more pixels or the colour temperature they use. In any case, about the new imacs, if we could have some feedback please, especially if a la typical apple fashion they are too bright (make it shinny and bright to sell, apple's moto these days, forget about ergonomics) or if they can be dimmed to a low setting. And of course about pwm flicker and all. Thanks. Great thread btw.

  • by scartacus,

    scartacus scartacus Feb 21, 2013 6:54 AM in response to scartacus
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 21, 2013 6:54 AM in response to scartacus

    Out of desperation, I have arranged for an engineer to swap out my shiny new apple MBP 13 inch screen with an older 2010 used one, pulled from another MBP.  Here's hoping it works and gets rid of the eye pain.

     

    Would be super grateful if someone with a mid 2010 MBP 13 incher could give me the model number of their screen.

     

    My current screen model, which gives me headaches and eyestrain is:

     

    LP133WX3-TLA4

    Color LCD

     

    To identify your screen make and model, cut and paste this line into the terminal App and press return

     

    ioreg -lw0 | grep \"EDID\" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6

     

    thanks

  • by shalegria1,

    shalegria1 shalegria1 Mar 3, 2013 5:17 PM in response to scartacus
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 3, 2013 5:17 PM in response to scartacus

    Hi scartacus, I entered the line into Terminal but don't see any info. Where will it show up?

  • by Beverly Corrigan,

    Beverly Corrigan Beverly Corrigan Mar 7, 2013 8:15 AM in response to scartacus
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Notebooks
    Mar 7, 2013 8:15 AM in response to scartacus

    Hi scartacus,

     

    I have a MacBook Pro 2010, which doesn't cause eye strain (I have experienced eye strain with the 2012 model). Below is the display info:

     

    N133I6-L10

    Color LCD

  • by GKphone,

    GKphone GKphone Mar 7, 2013 8:31 AM in response to Beverly Corrigan
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 7, 2013 8:31 AM in response to Beverly Corrigan

    Hi, I had a problem with my 2005 macbook which was a "LCD" screen, face going red, sun burn effect. prickly skin, eyes drying up.

     

    I moved to a "LED" 2008 Macbook Pro no big problems....Ive just recently bought a Mac Book Pro Retina. Which gave me the same problems as my old 2005 mac, skin going red, sun burn effect!!!

     

    So sent it back to Apple. Then bought the non Retina screen....same problem!!! Now looking for a second hand 2011 Macbook pro, before they changes the screen technology and hope it solves the problem. (1440x900)

     

    What has Apple done!!! I have the same problems with Low energy bulbs. Now in the small print of low energy bulbs they have had to print that they shouldn't be used as desk lights, due to skin being burnt. High EMF and High UV.....after to many people reporting this problem.

     

    LED torches, in the small print, you are advised not to look straight at the light, due to damaging the your eye sight?

     

    Have Apple gone to far with the screen technology?

  • by scartacus,

    scartacus scartacus Mar 7, 2013 12:56 PM in response to shalegria1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 7, 2013 12:56 PM in response to shalegria1

    you press the enter return key and the screen model number should appear by the cursor

  • by scartacus,

    scartacus scartacus Mar 7, 2013 12:56 PM in response to Beverly Corrigan
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 7, 2013 12:56 PM in response to Beverly Corrigan

    Thanks beverly. Finding an original 2010 screen, that isn't an LG is proving a big headache

  • by Rezberlin,

    Rezberlin Rezberlin Mar 15, 2013 1:38 PM in response to ap7547265
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 15, 2013 1:38 PM in response to ap7547265

    I'm an author and my eyes hurt more than ever, writing on my Macbook Air 13 2011. I've now written Apple my feedback via the FEEDBACK FORM and I advise every user to do the same, so that Apple gets the message.

     

    Before reading ap7547265's message, I had tried dimming the screen to under 50% thinking that it's the brighness levels. But now that I've read the post and attachments, dimming doesn't make sense to me anymore, since I now assume that it's the dimming that's causing the low voltage pulse frequency that may be the reason for my eye strain!

     

    So long story short, I've amped my brightness to MAX now, hoping that there won't be any dimming going on, and that the LED pulse frequency may finally be in tune with my eyes.

     

    I'm testing this now (with the blazinginly bright screen) and will let you know how I feel in a few days.

     

    You're welcome to take part in this experiment and share your results!

  • by logoo88,

    logoo88 logoo88 Mar 16, 2013 5:09 AM in response to Rezberlin
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 16, 2013 5:09 AM in response to Rezberlin

    I bet it will not change anything.

     

    - There is no consensus on this forum about the presence of PWM in Mac's screens.

    But everyone agrees that the symptoms are the same.

     

    - Then, the Shade software (wich darkens the screen in order to use it at maximum brightness) doesn't change anything for a great number of people.

    (There is no correlation between this and the question about the presence of PWM because some screens use PWM even at maximum brightness).

     

    Btw that's not a long term solution. Mac's screens are meant to shine in the Apple Store. If your room is not as bright it's not going to be good for your eyes either.

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