RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by LovesDogs0415,

    LovesDogs0415 LovesDogs0415 Mar 22, 2013 12:54 PM in response to GKphone
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mar 22, 2013 12:54 PM in response to GKphone

    I purchased the anti-glare screen on a 15" MBP and it didn't help at all. Not Retina screen, they didn't have them back then.  I am now using one of the last MacBooks with the LCD backlit screen.

  • by scartacus,

    scartacus scartacus Mar 22, 2013 1:02 PM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 22, 2013 1:02 PM in response to LovesDogs0415

    LovesDogs,

     

    Now you've got me worried. How many years do I have to go back to get a second hand, non-eyeburning screen?

    My original mid 2010 MBP was fine.

  • by Gareth Jones6,

    Gareth Jones6 Gareth Jones6 Mar 23, 2013 2:45 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mar 23, 2013 2:45 AM in response to RMartin111

    I thought I would give an update on my experiences.

     

    - It does appear that my migraines have become more severe because of a  reaction to medication I was taking, so hopefully now I've stopped it my  situation will start to improve. Howver, within my current sensitive  state, the following screens are definitely a major trigger factor /  irritant.

     

    - Having had trouble with my MPB, I bought an Acer S243HLAbmii monitor due the recommendation that it had a very low PWM, and it is still a real trigger for eyestrain / migraines. For it even to be usable I have to use Flux, have the brightness / contrast down low and wear sunglasses.

     

    - It has also become clear that my HTC Desire phone is a major trigger as well, though it never really used to be before my migraine situation deteriorated.

     

    - I recently started an office job after some time working at home, and have found that the monitors there do not cause me so much problems - as long as I regularly look away from the screen or do other tasks I ahve been fine. There I have been using two different small  monitors, which are pretty old looking but flat screen nevertheless. This suggests three possibilities -

    1) the screen size and/or physical proximity to the screen may be a major issue (I find myself craning forward to the acer because despute the size of the screen, I have struggled to get font sizes to be bigger)

    2) older CCFL screens are better than LED, though someone else on this thread has said they had problems with CCFL as well, or

    3) the flourescent strip lights used at work create a better atmosphere for screen viewing (though notably I still have problems with looking at my phone when at work).

     

    Hope this is of some use. I am now going to buy a cheap older monitor from Ebay and see how that goes

  • by shitbox,

    shitbox shitbox Mar 24, 2013 4:01 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 24, 2013 4:01 AM in response to RMartin111

    Just my 2 cents about all this :

     

    I never had Apple products but I can feel exactly the same symptoms that most of you.

      The first time, it was with a Samsung Galaxy S (one of the first OLED screen). I don't know if it damages my eyes, but until that, even some screen I liked became painfull, and I can just watch them with the lowest brightness (laptop, tv... some screen are more painfull than other).

     

    Just one thing that I noted :

     

    Try to watch your screen with just one eye open (right or left, it doesn't matter) : for me, it changes everything (no more pain). In fact the eye doesn't need to be completely close.

  • by scy123,

    scy123 scy123 Mar 24, 2013 7:32 AM in response to shitbox
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mac OS X
    Mar 24, 2013 7:32 AM in response to shitbox

    Hi guys, with retina display option on iPad, I am no longer having any headache even for a very long usage. Hence, suggest you all can try out RD and hope the problems will be sorted out.

     

    RD is Apple's top class discovery, I believe, which will make millions Apple Fans.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Mar 24, 2013 1:42 PM in response to scy123
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 24, 2013 1:42 PM in response to scy123

    Did you experience headaches before but now you dont?

  • by scy123,

    scy123 scy123 Mar 24, 2013 6:29 PM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mac OS X
    Mar 24, 2013 6:29 PM in response to Exandas

    Now, I realise after a long experience that my case was little different. The MBP which I bought in Mumbai, India was a faulty one, with a cheaper rate having model no MD313HN/A. This model was introduced in India may be by some fraudulent team who gave me a faulty Monitor which was creating all that headache, in fact, in the beginning while operating the MBP, I used to get some smell of chemicals. It must have done a lot of harm by its radiation.

     

    Yes, now, while operating ipad4, I have no head ache issue.

  • by Amerix,

    Amerix Amerix Mar 27, 2013 2:16 AM in response to scy123
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2013 2:16 AM in response to scy123

    Hi,

    Many comments on this post since I joined it and I must say I didn't read them all, so maybe someone as already notice this experience feedback.

    A few months ago to get away from the supposed agressive blue, I did change the screen display color (system preference-display-color-calibrate-- D50warm yellowish white)

    At the beginning you might feel the yellowish white is "not as nice" but after a few days you get use to it and after a few months I must say I feel less bothered by the screen, I mean less headhache, less eye strains.

    Amerix

  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Mar 27, 2013 2:52 AM in response to Amerix
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2013 2:52 AM in response to Amerix

    I've followed this discussion by e-mail. Many come in and suggest something like f-lux or lowering the temperature. But those of us who have experimented with this a bit more, know that it has nothing to do with the light temperature.

     

    Please consider the fact, that sunlight has the full spectrum of light. When you are out doors, the light intensity will be much higher and with the full spectrum than a display will produce.

     

    What the problem is?

     

    It is either:

    The flicker of the backlight by PWM (can be measured only by a SLR Camera or a special device, it is not visible to the eye.

    Proof: I've tested many displays that are confirmed to flicker and confirmed not to flicker and those that do not flicker, generally do not cause problems

     

    Or

    The snowing effect or some other type of flicker that has not been measure yet.

    Proof: Galaxy S3 and iPad 4 do not flicker by the measurement, but they do cause eye strain.

     

    What is not causing eye strain?

    hp zr2740w

     

    That display does not flicker and does not cause any eye strain no matter how long or if during the nigth I use it.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Mar 27, 2013 1:40 PM in response to mojarvinen
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2013 1:40 PM in response to mojarvinen

    I wonder if someone has tried Nokia Lumia 920. Nokia claims that the display in this smartphone is flicker-free. Did anyone in this forum read the white paper from Nokia regarding their display technology Pure Motion+? I am not an engineer and i am not sure if what are saying help people sensitive to flicker.

    http://www.nokia.com/global/innovation/puremotion/puremotion-hd-plus/

     

    Furthermore i tried Xperia Z for 1 hour and had the same diziness (or maybe a little worse) as with the iphone 4/ipad 3/MBP.


    Regarding Galaxy S3, i have seen a video in youtube and it seems SG3 screen flickers. I post the link below, but dont know what the conditions were for this test.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGAMlv_tSnk

     

     


  • by mojarvinen,

    mojarvinen mojarvinen Mar 27, 2013 1:47 PM in response to Exandas
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2013 1:47 PM in response to Exandas

    Yes, Galaxy S3 does flicker when the backlight is not 100 %. But when it is, it does not flicker, at least with the DSLR test. But for some reason it does irritate eyes, although it does not flicker at 100 %. So this must be the other type of flicker.

     

    I cannot read a book from Galaxy s3 Kindle, but I can read it with the Kindle device, which has e-ink.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas Mar 27, 2013 1:56 PM in response to mojarvinen
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2013 1:56 PM in response to mojarvinen

    When i used the Xperia Z i saw some kind of "snow" in any wallpaper i tried. I think i observed the same in SG3. Is this what you are referring? Is this maybe an Android issue?

    I had not observed this in my iphone though.

  • by Smokerz,

    Smokerz Smokerz Mar 27, 2013 3:28 PM in response to RMartin111
    Level 6 (9,699 points)
    Mar 27, 2013 3:28 PM in response to RMartin111

    Buy a retina ipad or a retina MBP. Wait for a retina Display. The dense ppi will help your eye sight issues.

  • by GKphone,

    GKphone GKphone Mar 27, 2013 6:02 PM in response to Smokerz
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2013 6:02 PM in response to Smokerz

    It was worst for me the Retina and non Rentina New Mac Book pros, sent them straight back to Apple, too bright!

    etc Red face, sun burn feeling on checks and fore head. Dry eyes. etc

    Back using 2008 Mac book Pro

  • by mvanier,

    mvanier mvanier Mar 27, 2013 10:17 PM in response to mojarvinen
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 27, 2013 10:17 PM in response to mojarvinen

    I wouldn't want sunlight to be my backlight either.  It is really full-spectrum, including UV-A, UV-B, and UV-C.  Staring directly at sunlight is a good way to go blind.  There is a reason that the preferred indoor reading light is tungsten incandescent, which is broad-spectrum but with little to no blue or UV light.  But comparing _any_ broad-spectrum light to LED backlights is incredibly misleading, because ("white") LEDs are not broad spectrum.  They have a huge, fairly sharp peak in blue and a more diffuse peak in yellow, and that's it.  The eye perceives this as white, but it is very different from the "white" from sunlight or from CCFL fluorescent or from tungsten incandescent, each of which is truly broad spectrum despite their different color temperatures.  So I would agree that perhaps eyestrain has little or nothing to do with color temperature per se but I submit that it has a lot to do with the actual light spectrum -- at least for many of us.  Some people seem to be more sensitive to flicker than to light spectrum, and you may well be among them.  It is entirely possible that subsets of people are sensitive to different problems, and it just so happens that modern LED-backlit screens have more than one problem.  I find that iPhone displays (4S and above) with the retina display have no perceivable flicker at all, but it is still hard on my eyes, so I conclude that spectrum is the important thing for me.  I love f-lux; it makes using my computer much more comfortable.  And I'll give another shout-out to my new Dell U2410 monitor (CCFL-backlit), which I find much more comfortable to look at than even my old CCFL-backlit Apple Cinema display, even without f-lux.

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