Oh, I didn't mean to say that you should use sun as your backligth or that staring into the sun is better than backlight. I meant to say that many people do work outdoors and read books on the beach, spend most of their time outdoors, without having any eye strain issues. I'm one of those - I do not get any eye strain outdoors, although the light is extremely more intense than any backlight. Of course, I will get eye strain in southern parts, where the UV radiation is intense and my eyes get basically sun burnt, but that is entirely a different thing.
I just have to argue that it is not the blue light that presents the problem. I'm using a LED backlit Samsung display at work, witht the backlight at 100% and the mentioned LED backlit HP at home. Neither of those flicker with the settings that I use them. The Samsung does flicker when the backlight is not 100 % and then it gives instant eye strain.
The CCFL backlit Dell is better because the CCFL light glows after it has been turned of, hence the PWM dimming is not that harsh - the difference between the light on/off.
F-lux does make it more comfortable, but that is due to the fact that one should limit blue light at night for better melatonin production. During the day time, blue light does not present a problem to the eyes. It is perfectly normal to have blue light during the day (outdoors).
The people that say that f-lux helps, should first try a display that has been confirmed to not cause eye strain and then re-evaluate the need for f-lux.
I give up. I am posting here because this is the braintrust on problem with LED backlighting. I want a smartphone. I would like to get an iPhone, but just a few minutes on the screen causes me to suffer the rest of the day. I even tried to find an iPhone 3 with plans to jump to AT&T and deal with the old technology.
Can anyone out there tell me which Smartphones do not have the LED backlighting? I use Verizon, but will switch.
Can anyone out there tell me if there are any Apple programs that will download to any smartphone other than iPhone.
Thank you for your time and attention. I apologize if this answer is embedded in our forum, but I couldn't find it. Searches simply took me to other forums.
I am not sure there are smartphones with capacitative screen and ccfl backlight. I was searching for the same thing but did not find any smartphones with these criteria.
Currently i am researching Nokia Lumia 920. Nokia claims the phone to be flicker-free, so at the moment this is the only phone i have found that seems (i insist on the "seems") to be tolerable to people sensitive to flicker, according to technical specs and various reviews. I post one of such links. I make the assumption here that some kind of flicker is the problem with the iphone.
Unfortunately, all Apple products for me are not usable, so after 15 years of Apple products use i have to change.
Thank you for responding, Exandas. I understand and don't look forward to having to leave Apple, especially the computer. Here is a note received from a friend in a local Mac user's group. Not much hope here. Actually, the only hope I have is that one day someone amongst us will stumble upon a solution.
I well remember the problem from our past e-mail exchange. Now I wonder what is the long-range future for you in using video screen devices. Here is an excerpt from a Wikipedia article last modified 25 Feb 2013:
"The use of LED backlights in notebook computers has been growing. Sony has used LED backlights in some of its higher-end slim VAIO notebooks since 2005. Fujitsu introduced notebooks with LED backlights in 2006. In 2007, Asus, Dell, and Apple introduced LED backlights into some of their notebook models. As of 2008, Lenovo has also announced LED-backlit notebooks. In October 2008, Apple announced it will be using LED backlights for all its notebook and its new 24-inch Apple Cinema Display, and one year later it introduced a new LED iMac, meaning all of Apple's computer screens are now LED. Almost every laptop with 16:9 display introduced since September 2009 uses LED-backlit panels. This is also the case for most LCD television sets, which are marketed in some countries under the misleading name LED TV, although the image is still generated by an LCD panel." This makes it seem unhopeful. Best of luck with this.
Ironically, a workman was just here with an iPhone 5 and I used his phone and it didn't hurt immediately. He said he had it in an Otter case with a screen protector. I looked it up on internet. Makes no sense, but I am DESPERATE. I'll see if he'll let me use it again. http://www.otterbox.com/apple-new-iphone-5-cases/apple-new-iphone-5-cases,defaul t,sc.html
Thanks so much. I love this "support" group.
SMARTPHONE - I'm also looking for a headachefree smartphone - my father's Galaxy Note 1 was reasonably comfortable but when i bought one myself it made my eyes twitchy and made me feel mildly nauseous. ANY positive experience with a current smartphone please post!
LAPTOP - I've tried every iteration of every apple laptop now. The retina 15inch was ok but not perfect - AND at that price it needs to be perfect!
Anyone have a currently available laptop they can work with? Anything will do.
As far as I know, all smartphones either use LED backlights or something like an AMOLED screen where the screen itself is made of LEDs. There are no CCFL-backlit smartphones. There can't be, because that would massively increase power usage as well as the size (depth) of the phone.
People on this list tend to either be more sensitive to blue light or to perceived flicker. I can't detect any flicker on my iPhone 4S. If you're sensitive to blue light (like I am), you might get an Android phone and install f.lux. F.lux can't be installed on an iPhone without jailbreaking it (thanks, Apple!). Then set the colors to cut most of the blue.
If you must have a laptop, try to find a 2007-era Macbook Pro. You might find a used one cheap. Mine still works fine. Make sure it has a CCFL-backlight.
However, I believe that the real solution is to use an external monitor that is CCFL-backlit. There, you have many good options. There are also some LED-backlit external monitors that are supposedly easy on the eyes, such as the HP ZR2740 (which supposedly doesn't use PWM dimming).
I'm waiting for my 15 inch ant glare macbook pro to turn up, in the hope it will alleviate the problem. If not, I need to buy the most recent 13 inch MBP without an eyeburner screen. Seems like the LTN samsung or the AU or Chi Mei might be the ones to go for. The Phillips/LG blows my eyeballs out everyone. Does anyone know when Apple switched to LG/Phillips? Is a Feb 2011 MBP "safe" or do I have to go to 2010 to be sure?
Any comments/guesses much appreciated.
Yesterday i tried lumia 920. I used it from the morning untill noon as i would use my blackberry in a normal day. At the beginning i experienced mild dizziness, at the end of the day i had sore eyes and headache. While it is easier for the eyes in comparison to iphone 4s, i dont think i could use it everyday since it seems that in the end it causes me eye strain and headache.
Unfortunately, i know of no other smartphone that may be usable based on the specs that are published, for people sensitive like me.
I want to add my testing and experiences to the forum. I could never tolerate LCD screens of any type but find I can use the itouch 4g and Lenovo x200 with no issues. I have to use windows CPU on CRT to do my computer work. I have noticed that when I upgraded to a newer i7 or similar processor I got the funny head squeezing pain.
I have this no matter what the graphics card or screen adjustments. I have a theory that there is something in the new chipsets that is causing issues. I found that I have issues on new hardware even when I use the same OS, video card and monitor that work fine on older processors. I am now looking to see why or what is different. Also if I upgrade an xp workstation to win 7 then the issue appears. I think that there are lots of things going on and that is why we haven't resolved this. I think that there is something in the new hardware and operating systems that needs to be looked into. Any help on this is appreciated.
Hello from Poland, I am not native english speaker, so sorry for grammar
I'm not an Apple user but I've the same problem as you are. Eye burning from LED illuminated monitor. Your Apple thread is very similar to thread in Russian language at http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=28:26553, which I'm active poster. I'm very interested in solving that problem.
My story of using different types of screens:
1. 25 years using of 5 different CRT monitors (85-100 Hz) 15' and 17' - I can watch them 24 hours/day without problems
2. a few years ago I bought netbook EEE PC 901 8,9' with LED backlight without PWM (pulse with modulation) - very comfortable to eyes
3. and now I own two different monitors: LG dm2780d semi-matt 27' with LED backlight with PWM, and Acer G245H 24' glare screen on CCFL.
- Acer is not such comfortable as CRT, besouse too intense light at any setup vs soft light from CRT, but I can work with it.
- LG is literally burning my eyes. After one day of heavy using it I feel heavy pain in middle of my right eye at morning. (I've heard then right eye is more sensitive to light then left). On the second day when even watching some films from many meters I fell the pain in 5 minutes of using it. To reduce PWM (as I read in many forums) I switched to 100% brightness/30%contrast/20%ligthness but it does not help. Sunglasses with UV protection do not help too. (anyway monitor screen should cut all UV).
I really don't know where the problem is. In LED's light or PWM. Maybe in types of LED's becouse my EEE PC 901 was very comfortable.
So I have such options:
- stick with the most friendly to me CRT
- go to the last CCFL which available on market
- try using LED's backlited monitors without PWM: (list from: http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=28:27338:719#719)
Apple Cinema and Thunderbolt 27'' (H-IPS)
BenQ GW2760HS (1920x1080, AMVA)
Dell U2312HM, only v. A06 (e-IPS)
Dell S2340T (IPS)
Dell U2713H (AH-IPS)
Dell U2713HM (AH-IPS)
Dell S2740L (AH-IPS)
Dell U2913WM (AH-IPS 2560x1080)
HP ZR2740w (H-IPS)
Samsung S24A850DW (PLS)
Samsung S27A850D (PLS)
Samsung S27B970D (PLS)
ViewSonic VP2770-LED (PLS)
- or dissasemble my LG monitor to throw away LED's and use incandascent bulb as light
Please read very interesting http://archive.is/LHath about CCFL/LED backlight from man who done simple incandascent monitor.
Anyway I will write info to this thread how I solved the problem.
Kristof - Poland
From what you are saying, i think i can concule that PWM is causing the problem to you.
- EEE is without PWM
- Acer is using ccfl (not disturbing)
- LG is using LEDs with PWM, and is burning your eyes
It seems PWM in many cases is the actual problem.
Concerning Apple products, If you read this thread you will see that some people have tested for PWM but they could not detect any. I read the same for some other high end devices like SG3 and Lumia 920, that although in full brightness they don't flicker (or cannot detect flicker), they are still harsh to the eyes.
I am an active follower of this forum and posted over a year ago. Here is my LED screen history. Unfortunately for me I see myself as one extreme case of this problem.
- iMac 27¨ 2011. This was the unit that revealed the problem. I bought as my first Mac and got very excited about the idea to move to IOS after 20 years with Microsoft. Took me a couple of days to identify that my terrible headaches were coming from the Apple... ---> returned the unit back to the shop
- MBP 15¨ 2011. With great hope that what happened to the iMac will be just a rare case, I bought a MBP with mate screen. At Apple they told me that mate will be the solution since it is a lot more confortable to the eyes. Well, I can tell that the MBP was a lot worse than the iMac, in fact the worst I can remember (motion sickness, feeling really sick, severe migrain, impossible to drive during the same day, even feeling like vomiting!) For the record, I connected the MBP to my old LCD external monitor and the effects were still there (not that bad though) ---> Returned to the applestore
- Sony KDL46HX900. Television set. I thought that the headaches belong only to the computer products so I got myself this TV. I can tell that the quality was superb, as I never saw before. Unfortunately I couldn't watch it for longer than 30min. The technology was LED with 200 Hz refresh rate. The set had a pair of active shutter 3D glasses that will trigger the disconfort in no less than 30 seconds. -----> Returned to the shop
- I began to be a bit desperate since my working desktop (PC from 2005 with LG L1750s CCFL screen) began to show certain age. Same for my HP pavillion dv9000 laptop with also a CCFL screen, both running windows XP. I assumed already that LED screen are not for my eyes so decided to buy a LCD monitor to be connected to my old equipment so I got myself an HP LCD screen HP S2031 20¨. I was so sure that I'll be okay with that, but to my surprise a relatively new LCD screen connected to my beloved old desktop or laptop will have the same issues! So, it is not the LED! it is something else on new monitors. I read a lot about PWM, blue light, increasing brightness, calibrating monitor.... I tried hard and even insist on staying in front of the screen (maybe it takes time to adapt your eyes??) with zero luck. Got tired of having heavy headaches every day and sadly returned the LCD monitor to the shop.
- I took the issue seriously and went to no less than 3 different opticians. They all guarantee me that my eyes and sight is in perfect condition. When I tell my story they comment that it might not be a prob with your eyes but more likely how your optical nerves react to flickering. One said that you don't notice it but your eyes are trying to keep track of the flicking of the screen and got confused and tired very rapidly because they send too much imput to your brains. That of course was just a guess. Anyway, I took that my eyes have zero problem.
- Ok, I put myself together. Conclussions so far: any new LED screen, not good for me; any new LCD developed monitor, not good for me. Had to give up on apple products since they are not good for my eyes. Or... maybe there is a combination still to be tried?? Of course, why not a MacMini connected to my old and reliable LG L1750s LCD screen? That should do! I bought it and again to my surprise the problem was still there. I can tell you that not as bad as with the iMac or MBP, but longer than 30 min in front of my LCD screen connected to the MacMini was not good either. I was very sad about it. So, the new conclusion is that the problem isn't the screen but what drives it. Could it be?
- I do need a laptop for work so, having completely given up with apple products. I decided to go for an ultrabook Toshiba Portege Z930-10E running windows 7. Incredibly light and fast machine. I loved it too. I tried in the shop for 15min and I didn't notice any problem so I bought it. Got home and spent over 5h installing software and moving my data over, only to realize that the disconfort and headaches were back. It couldn't be true I told myself, but there it was. Yet again a very expensive laptop not good. I looked into the specs and indeed the system has exactly the same graphics card than the macMini. That is Intel Graphics HD 4000. Ok, anothe one bites the dust and get's back to the shop...
- Quite scare about it, I needed a new phone. Found an operator offer and got myself an iphone 4. To my surprise all was good and I could look at the screen for hours!! I thought that those guys are begining to do things well and got certain reconciliation with Apple. Maybe the key is those retina displays?
- Last christmas I decided to try again. There must be a screen out there that my eyes could tolerate. I got myself a non apple laptop making sure that doesn't have those intel HD 4000 graphics card. The choice was an HP Pavillion G6-2006ss with an NVDIA card and LED screen. Things got better. No more headaches anymore but just eye disconfort. This is an improvement, but still not enough to let me work the 9h/day that I need to be in front of the PC. I thought of retain the unit but again when the 2 week trial period comes to an end there is a feeling that tells you why should I put up with an expensive machine that hurts and it is bad for your health? --> returned too to the shop.
- Another try. I saw at HP store some descriptions about laptops and they have a line for multimedia/home users and another line for business. I talked to a sales person who kindly explained my that the HP Probook line has an antiglare screen with less light power for office users who spend many hours in front of it. It doesn't have the intel HD4000 graphics but a lower one just intel HD. I had a try and unfortunately after a couple of days trying turned out to be the same thing. I should mentioned how nice they were at HP to refund it and to get interest on the problem. They wrote down something I think.
- new MBP 15¨ with retina displays are out. With the positive experience of the iphone4 I get into an apple shop and spend 20min playing around. Incredible quality and fast, nice, well build laptop. But again the same problem. Looking more carefully, it also has the intel HD 4000 Graphics chipset. I won't buy it!!
- My wife got herself an iPad3 and was very happy with it. I was very pesimistic about it but here is a surprise. I don't know what they put inside the iPad3 but I can look at it for a long time. No problems!! I look at the specs and it doesn't have any dedicated Graphics card. It is al driven by the A5 chip inside.
- Last and most recent try. Just buy a new desktop PC tower and connect it to my old LCD monitor and avoid intel Graphics of any kind! I got myself an ASUS tower with NVDIA GeForce 550xt graphics. At this point in time I don't get surprised by anything and this was yet again another fiasco. Quite bad actually.
All together. Now I am confused. The problem isn't necesarily the LEDs (iphone & ipad are LED screens). Is it what drives it? or maybe is the operating system? IOS or Windows 7 with font smoothing or this artifacts they include for fast response, games etc... As you can see I've tried everything and yes, any possible calibration setting on each one of the units I have tried (change refresh rate, calibrate color temperature, disable any 3D effects, disable font smoothing, put the brightness to the max and watch with sunglasses, the f-lux program, gamma settings, put a filter coat in front of the screen, any trick/workaround on this forum I tried....). Guys, I am a lab! because I really need a PC/laptop for a living I keep on trying. Up to now 11 machines with no luck at all.
What is next?
I put two iPad 3rd gen iPads side by side. One was a 16 GB w/ cellular.
The other was a 32 GB. They were both white and purchased at the same store.
I noticed one was bluer and one was more yellow.
My eyes could NOT bare the 32 GB which was the more yellow iPad. I got the dreaded eye pain and returned it.
The 16 GB (bluer) I still own.
I use a older LCD ccfl Dell monitor and use WinXp with no problems. After I installed windows 7 I immediately got the dreaded eye pain/headache.
And...I use a Xbox 360 with no problem. I hooked up a ps3 and immediately got eye problems.