RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by luisx,

    luisx luisx Apr 22, 2013 7:18 AM in response to David Turnough
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Apr 22, 2013 7:18 AM in response to David Turnough

    Another one bites the dust....

     

    Just got a superb TV set LG 55LM660s and got the same issue as it is widely described here and we suffer from. That makes my flat screen number 12 failure. I was curious about the Hz refresh rate (400 in this case). Would that do better?  not really. One thing I can tell is that something is a bit different this time. It is not headaches this time, just eyes burning (and hurting). Something has probably changed with the refreshment rate increase, although still not good to keep the unit.

     

     

  • by CT,

    CT CT Apr 22, 2013 7:19 AM in response to luisx
    Level 6 (17,883 points)
    Notebooks
    Apr 22, 2013 7:19 AM in response to luisx
  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 Apr 22, 2013 12:42 PM in response to luisx
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Apr 22, 2013 12:42 PM in response to luisx

    The Dell U2413 goes also back, now I'm really not sure at all that dithering is the issue, since this one was an 8 bit per color panel and also no PWM over 20% brightness...

  • by cadette61,

    cadette61 cadette61 Apr 25, 2013 6:40 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Apr 25, 2013 6:40 AM in response to RMartin111

    I've had similar issues with LED screens - first with a Macbook Pro, then with Sony and HP laptops. I'm going to buy an external CCFL screen, and am contemplating buying a Mac Mini to use with it. However, some earlier comments on this thread suggest that Mac Minis can make even CCFL screens problematic to look at. Does anyone have any good/bad experiences to share on the Mac Mini/CCFL combination? With thanks in advance!

  • by luisx,

    luisx luisx Apr 25, 2013 7:11 AM in response to cadette61
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Apr 25, 2013 7:11 AM in response to cadette61

    Hi Cadette,

     

    I've been exactly in your situation and thought that a Mac Mini will be the solution. It is seating next to me now switched off for months...  My LCD monitor since 2005 (LG L1750s) is really confortable to the eyes until you connect the mac mini. I have to say that it is not as bad as the MBP or iMac but to my surprise a screen that worked perfectly well becomes bad for the eyes too    

     

    Having said that, it definitely doesn't mean that it will happen to you too. Who knows.

     

    good luck

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 Apr 29, 2013 8:01 AM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Apr 29, 2013 8:01 AM in response to LovesDogs0415

    In reply to LovesDogs earlier post, I am also one of the many who is suffering from LED lights and it certainly is frustrating how many people do not take it seriously. It is debilating and I am curently on disability with the very real possibility of losing my career. I am curently building a website called Lightsickness.com that will be a center for sharing resources and experiences for people like us who are so negativly affected by this new technology, I supsect as LED overhead lighting takes over our world there will be many more of us than there currently are experiencing major issues.

  • by Kxtr73,

    Kxtr73 Kxtr73 Apr 29, 2013 9:42 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Apr 29, 2013 9:42 AM in response to RMartin111

    I've used LCD/LED with PWM monitor in 5 days and realized that my burning eyes will not stand it. 3 weeks has passed until this short time and I still have some problems looking in my old CRT monitor. Until recently pain was severe and I had blurred vision in my right eye. In the meantime I've done ophthalmologist's tests and all checkups were correct ....

     

    Now I have 3 monitors.

    Windows 8:

    CRT is painless now (but I see it has some impact when eyes have problems)

    LCD/CCFL with small PWM - unfortunately, my eyes are tired after some time (but not so drastically like LED/PWM monitor)

     

     

    Windows XP:

    LCD/CCFL without PWM (100% brightness/dimmed by graphic card) - I don't see any problems

    LCD/LED no PWM EEE PC 901 netbook -  I don't see any problems

     

     

     

    So LED could be very dangerous. Some days ago I was desperate that my right eye is permanently damaged, but is ok now.

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker May 2, 2013 5:18 AM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 2, 2013 5:18 AM in response to StefanD13

    Stefan, the U2413 is a 10bit panel with dithering, as I've already told you!

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 May 2, 2013 12:42 PM in response to CoreLinker
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 2, 2013 12:42 PM in response to CoreLinker

    Yes, but I thought that since my graphic card is not able to do 10 bit/color, the panel should not do any dithering...

    I tried also the hp zr2740w and although not so bad as the u2413 was still uncomfortable.

    Then spent some 40 minutes in Apple store in front of a Thunderbolt display and was also not good.

    It's a miracle that both at work and home I still have a working combination... for how long now...

    I have no tablet anymore (sad, sad), thinking of buying again an iPad1

  • by alarmatwork,

    alarmatwork alarmatwork May 5, 2013 12:33 AM in response to RMartin111
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 5, 2013 12:33 AM in response to RMartin111

    I would like to share a litte solution that is working for me and might me helpful to some of you.

     

    I've been monitoring this thread for a long time... since I bought my first Macbook Air and discovered that my migraine headaches with aura started to visit me more often than regular. So I sold the MBA, then a year later I tried Retina 15" and returned this one too. Just got numbness in my head and ended up with headache almost every day.

     

    But as my 2008 Macbook White was not up to this task on development with 4GB max memory then I was constantly looking for solution to stay on the MacOS, since I like it.

     

     

    As a last straw I noticed that Apple is selling refurbished Macbooks from 2012 which have more or less modern hardware and some kind of screen which is still LED backlight, but has kind of special 1680-by-1050 resolution and is antiglare.

     

    And after few weeks it is probably safe to tell that it is working for me. I've spend 2 long days and nights hackatlon with this screen and been working with this computer for 2 weeks daily bases now and I don't feel that irritating feeling as with Retina or 13" MBA screens.

     

    I ordered one like this:

    http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0MWALL/A/refurbished-macbook-pro-27ghz-quad-c ore-intel-i7

     

    This refurbished model is probably sold out, but you can keep monitoring for Refurbished department of online shop:

    http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

     

    Or  you can even order new one with special anti-glare screen. Not sure what producer panel is used there and if it will work for your. My model has following screen panel:

     

    LTN154MT07

    Color LCD

     

     

     

    I have had few migraine episodes though, but I'm pretty sure that they were caused by Dell LED UltraSharp U2412M high resolution external monitor which didn't feel good for eyes and head.

     

    I don't know if it will help everybody in this thread, but I hope this info will help at least some of you to keep using Mac laptop with modern configuration.

  • by StefanD13,

    StefanD13 StefanD13 May 5, 2013 3:05 AM in response to alarmatwork
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 5, 2013 3:05 AM in response to alarmatwork

    Can you tell whether the nvidia or the intel GPU is used? I don't know how is this handled under macos, if you can control or at least see which one is used. My work computer has also an intel and and a AMD GPU and when I switch to intel I get eye strain.

    Also all macbooks I checked until now were only with intel GPU.

  • by alarmatwork,

    alarmatwork alarmatwork May 5, 2013 4:41 AM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 5, 2013 4:41 AM in response to StefanD13

    Not sure if it depends on graphics card, but to answer you I've just downloaded http://gfx.io/ and this seems to be tool to detect which GFX card is used and even allows to force either  integrated Intel or discrete Nvidia card.

     

    I will try to use one and then another for a while and will report back the results.

  • by scartacus,

    scartacus scartacus May 6, 2013 2:39 AM in response to alarmatwork
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 6, 2013 2:39 AM in response to alarmatwork

    Alarmatwork -- you've prompted me to report in.

     

    I swopped by MBP 13 for a 15inch MBP with anti-glare.

     

    I would say the anti-glare screen has got rid of 90% of the eyestrain. After 8 hours screenwork my eyes are tired but it's nothing compared to what I experienced on the glossy MBP and imac type cinema screens. 

    The gotcha is the resolution is higher, the text smaller, but as long as you use the command + on websites and tweak the font settings, anti-glare is a MUCH better option in my experience.

  • by alarmatwork,

    alarmatwork alarmatwork May 6, 2013 8:08 AM in response to scartacus
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 6, 2013 8:08 AM in response to scartacus

    I'm not sure that the resolution is the actual reason. Because I've tried Retina display also with the scaled resolution with a quite big font - it still was bad for me. So the irritation for eyes/head comes from something else. Maybe the anti-glare 1680-by-1050 display is build in a different way technically. Or the graphics card is different, the graphics driver etc.

  • by CoreLinker,

    CoreLinker CoreLinker May 6, 2013 3:50 PM in response to StefanD13
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 6, 2013 3:50 PM in response to StefanD13

    Stefan, when you simply take those two extra bits generated by dithering away from a 10bit display, you don't miraculously end with the same sRGB 8bit colorspace found on 8bit monitors. sRGB is actually simulated on those monitors using full 10bit color. Less accurately, in fact, than on a quality 8bit display.

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