RMartin111

Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

There is one relatively serious con of the new LED backlit displays in the new MacBook Pros that seems to not get too much mention in the media. About a month ago I bought a new MacBook Pro to replace my standard white MacBook. One feature of the MacBook Pro that I was unaware of was the introduction of the LED backlit display to replace the CCFL backlight.

Once I started using my new laptop for long periods of time, I noticed severe eye strain and minor symptoms almost similar to motion sickness. After 20 or 30 minutes of use, I felt like I had been looking at the screen all day. Much longer and I would get headaches. If I used the old white MacBook (with its CCFL display), I had no eye troubles at all. Moreover, I could detect a distinct flicker on the MacBook Pro display when I moved my eyes across it - especially over high contract areas of the screen. White text on a black background was virtually impossible for me to read without feeling sick to my stomach because of all the flickering from moving my eyes over the text.

The strangest thing about all of this was that nobody else I showed the screen to could see these flickers I was seeing. I began to question my sanity until I did a little research. Discovering that the MacBook Pro introduced a new LED backlit display started to shed some light (so to speak) on what might be going on. I had long known that I could see LED flicker in things like car taillights and christmas lights that most of my friends could not see. I also knew that I could easily see the "rainbow effect" in DLP televisions that many other people don't see.

My research into LED technology turned up the fact that it is a bit of a technological challenge to dim an LED. Varying the voltage generally doesn't work as they are essentially designed to be either on or off with a fixed brightness. To work around this limitation, designers use a technique called pulse width modulation to mimic the appearance of lower intensity light coming out of the LED. I don't claim to fully understand the concept, but it essentially seems to involve very briefly turning off the LED several times over a given time span. The dimmer the LED needs to appear, the more time it spends in the off state.

Because this all happens so very quickly, the human brain does not interpret the flickers as flickers, rather as simply dimmer light. For most people that is. Some people (myself included) are much more sensitive to these flickers. From what I can tell, the concept is called the "flicker fusion threshold" and is the frequency at which sometime that is actually flickering is interpreted by the human brain as being continuously lit. While the vast majority of people have a threshold that doesn't allow them to see the flicker in dimmed LEDs, some people have a higher threshold that causes them to see the flickering in things like LED car tail lights and, unfortunately, LED backlit displays - leading to this terrible eye strain.

The solution? I now keep my screen turned up to full brightness to eliminate the need for the flicker-inducing pulse width modulation. The screen is very bright, but there are no more flickers and I love my MacBook Pro too much to exchange it for a plain MacBook with CCFL backlighting (which will also supposedly be switching to LED backlighting in 2009 anyway.) The staff at my local Apple store was of course more than helpful and was willing to let me exchange my glossy screen for matte even though I was beyond the 14 day return period. I knew that wasn't the problem though as my old MacBook was a glossy display. I've decided to stick with my full brightness solution. Sitting in a brightly-lit room tends to help alleviate how blinding the full brightness of the screen can be. In a dimly-lit room I guess I just wear sunglasses. Either way, the extreme brightness is worlds better than the sickening flicker I saw with a lower brightness setting

I would caution anybody considering buying a product with an LED backlit display to pay careful attention to make sure you don't have this same sensitivity. Turn the screen brightness down, find a high contract area of the screen, and quickly move your eyes back and forth over the screen. If you can detect the flicker, you may end up with this same problem.

I have no idea what percentage of the population has this sensitivity. I imagine we will hear more about it as more and more displays start using this technology. Hopefully the Apple engineers will come up with a way to eliminate this flicker some of us can see.

Russ Martin

15-inch MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.4)

Posted on Aug 23, 2008 8:25 AM

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Q: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

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  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 May 23, 2013 10:17 AM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 1 (8 points)
    May 23, 2013 10:17 AM in response to LovesDogs0415

    My doctor, too! He couldn't tell me what CAUSED it, but he examined me before and after and definitely saw eyestrain, dryness, muscle fatigue, redness... he LITERALLY saw it, and referred me to an expert on "occupational eyestrain". It's ridiculously expensive and I haven't been yet since I KNOW what causes the problem and basically how to mitigate it.

  • by GKphone,

    GKphone GKphone May 23, 2013 10:27 AM in response to LovesDogs0415
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 23, 2013 10:27 AM in response to LovesDogs0415

    Ok i will try again. My post was removed by Apple i guess? This is one of the websites that helped me, and others who have become sensitive to man made lights....non profit etc just helping others, so they don't feel like they are going mad.

     

    When i become sensitive to my 2005 LCD Macbook i wanted to know why? I can use a LED 2008 Mac Book pro, but unfortunately i cant use 2012 Mac book pros onwards.

     

     

     

    <Link Edited By Host>

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 May 23, 2013 10:26 AM in response to Conan_BC
    Level 1 (8 points)
    May 23, 2013 10:26 AM in response to Conan_BC

    Conan_BC,

     

    I finally re-read your post and realized it was aimed at me!

     

    Yes, that's a good test.

     

    I took have been exercising, taking an eye-health supplement, and have managed to stay FAIRLY eye healthy although this week in particular has been tough - but the long weekend should help.

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 May 23, 2013 10:33 AM in response to GKphone
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 23, 2013 10:33 AM in response to GKphone

    They will not let you post your email address or any links to websites they dont like and other items as well, your link was edited out. If people are subscribed to this post though they still receive it in their email. Don't worry, within weeks my website will show up in google's results, maybe top 10 and probably land right next to this forum result! I apreciate offers for help from many of you and I will work on getting in touch with you all as best I can, let's see where we go with the site and within the next couple of days we should be able to speak elsewhere. Gurm, I think our best option will be a change in the backlighting technology or glasses that block the harmful effects of the LED lighting, I am currently researching both possibilities.

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 May 23, 2013 10:40 AM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (8 points)
    May 23, 2013 10:40 AM in response to Jessiah1

    Gunnar tint seems to help a lot for me. I am ordering a pair of prescription computer glasses with the Gunnar process (and optimized for 2-3 feet from my face) and we will see how that does. If it works out, I'll get a pair of distance glasses with that tint as well for when I want to go to places with lots of LED light.

     

    But the real solution isn't to filter the light, it's to not use it in the first place!

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 May 23, 2013 12:36 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 23, 2013 12:36 PM in response to Gurm42

    I replied Gurm42, removed imediatly, hopefully you got an email. I stated the Gunnar glasses are probably anti-glare tinted and they work for me with fluorescent back light but not with LED lighting.

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 May 23, 2013 12:46 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (8 points)
    May 23, 2013 12:46 PM in response to Jessiah1

    The Gunnar cut glare and also help a LOT with the high intensity fluorescents where I work. Additionally they kill some of the blue spectrum so that helps too.

     

    Other people have had luck with rose-tinted glasses, but I tried them and they didn't help much.

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 May 23, 2013 12:49 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 23, 2013 12:49 PM in response to Gurm42

    I have tried all different colors, there is science behind anti-glare coatings. They are designed to cut spectrum of light down and it is possible you are blocking healthy blue light spectrum with the gunnar glasses. I am working with an anti-glare company and they are piloting a new coating right now that has helped me the most of anything I have tried, it's possible it could help you altogether if your not as sensitive as I am...

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 May 23, 2013 12:55 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (8 points)
    May 23, 2013 12:55 PM in response to Jessiah1

    Quite possibly. We'll catch up more on your site that we can't post links to.

  • by mvanier,

    mvanier mvanier May 23, 2013 1:55 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 23, 2013 1:55 PM in response to Gurm42

    Gurm,

     

    I'm one of the people who vouch for the Dell 2410.  I got one recently and it's great -- no eye strain.  I use it along with the f.lux program (a must for people with eyestrain IMO) and it's great.  I turn off f.lux if I'm watching a movie, otherwise it stays on.  Gunnar glasses are a good idea though I haven't bought any myself (they're a bit flimsy and I need prescription glasses).  I would like it if all eyewear manufacturers offered a blue-light filtering option for computer glasses.

     

    I don't know of any modern laptop that still uses CCFL backlighting.  Unfortunately, the advantages of LED backlighting are particularly strong in laptops: reduced power consumption.  My recommendation is always to get an external CCFL-backlit monitor.

     

    There are lots of exciting technologies on the horizon that could lead to better monitors.  Quantum dot LEDs are the coolest by far, in that they can generate any spectrum of light.  However, this is still experimental.  I hope that by the time my Dell monitor dies there will be something decent to take its place!

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 May 23, 2013 1:59 PM in response to mvanier
    Level 1 (8 points)
    May 23, 2013 1:59 PM in response to mvanier

    Yeah, I was afraid of that. I want to hear from some people who have maybe gotten the high-gamut panels. Dell makes new high-end 15" laptops with RGB LED's that supposedly produce MUCH better light than the standard "white" (blue) ones. I'd love to see one, but don't want to make my employer buy one if I'll just not use it.

  • by Jessiah1,

    Jessiah1 Jessiah1 May 23, 2013 2:05 PM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 23, 2013 2:05 PM in response to Gurm42

    Has anyone had a chance to try the "Flicker Free" 3D monitors yet? There are a couple out there, I believe we have a two fold issue here with blue spectrum and flicker...

  • by Gurm42,

    Gurm42 Gurm42 May 23, 2013 2:09 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (8 points)
    May 23, 2013 2:09 PM in response to Jessiah1

    Actually I am trying one out this upcoming weekend. There was a Dell XPS 17" laying around work that someone special ordered a while back, it uses LED but it's super hi-def 120hz, and the color gamut is 72% which is really not bad for a laptop display. I'll see how it fares and report back.

  • by Kxtr73,

    Kxtr73 Kxtr73 May 23, 2013 11:53 PM in response to Jessiah1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 23, 2013 11:53 PM in response to Jessiah1

    "Flicker Free 3D" is a passive 3D LG monitor/TV with LED slogan. (active 3D has flicker in glasses). All of them have PWM. I had DM2780d 3D and "burned eyes" thanks to it.

  • by Exandas,

    Exandas Exandas May 24, 2013 12:48 AM in response to Gurm42
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 24, 2013 12:48 AM in response to Gurm42

    Does anybody know if there are any reports why some people are sensitive to the new LED displays? Obviously we are a minority that experience such severe symptoms. While many people find that LED screen are not so comfortable compared to their old ccfl screen, they can use the LEDs with no major problems (this is actually part of the results of a research i conducted within the 800 people company i work for) . I wonder what differentiates us from the rest of the population.

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