simple AVCHD conversion for PPC Mac

Question

simple AVCHD conversion for PPC Mac

Hi,
I've got a Power PC Mac (dual 2.5) with Final Cut Studio (version 5.1.4) and want to do something really easy (at least easy in my mind this should be easy)--I want to purchase an HD camcorder, record a video and then edit that video in Final Cut Studio.
Here is the rub--for some unknown reason, apple does not have the technical ability to allow AVCHD to be edited in the older version of Final Cut and/or on a Power PC based Mac. So, what I need to do is convert the AVCHD to a format that my version of Final Cut can work with--any ideas on how to do this....as Quicktime can't seem to do it (and no, I refuse to spend $3,000 for a new computer and 500 for a software upgrade).
Right now, I'm being forced towards getting a JVC GZ-HD6 (instead of my favored Canon HF10) since it's file format can be converted in Quicktime for use in Final Cut. What gives...is AVCHD video conversion really that hard--if it is...why is AVCHD so popular when JVC puts out something that works--their version can be converted easily. And for that matter, why can't Final Cut simply just work with the JVC file version?
Another question I have...if someone can help me out.... why is there such a compelling drive to have final cut work with specific cameras? Why not just download the video to the hard drive and work from there?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
Vic

PowerMac G5 and PowerBook G4 and macbook, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Aug 24, 2008 9:43 PM

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Answer 1

Aug 24, 2008 10:43 PM in response to Victor Grycenkov

You need Final Cut Pro 6

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Answer 2

Andy Mees

Level 6

12,610 points

Aug 25, 2008 4:50 AM in response to Victor Grycenkov

for some unknown reason, apple does not have the technical ability to allow AVCHD to be edited in the older version of Final Cut

Its not an unknown reason, Victor. Your older version of FCP was coded prior to the establishment of AVCHD as a mainstream consumer format that might reasonably be expected to be need to be supported. Just as my old 4:3 black and white TV can't display a color picture or an HD picture or a full frame 16:9 picture, because it was engineered prior to the establishment of such formats, I'd need to upgrade it (replace it with a newer set) to get support for such newfangled technology ... you need to upgrade your version of FCP if you want support for the latest video formats.

what I need to do is convert the AVCHD to a format that my version of Final Cut can work with--any ideas on how to do this

You can try VoltaicHD from ShedWorx, which can convert your source files to a format (Apple Intermediate Codec) which is supported by your hardware/software
http://www.shedworx.com/?q=volmac-home

What gives...is AVCHD video conversion really that hard

Yes actually it is very complicated. AVCHD is a highly compressed acquisition format and certainly not a post production format as the complexity of the compression algorithm does not lend itself to real time processing (at least not yet with the current state of technological advancement).

why is there such a compelling drive to have final cut work with specific cameras?

As with any complex hardware/software setup. Some configurations will be known to be fully compatible and some less so. This is just the real world and the way it works. You can find a full list of directly and fully supported hardware on Apple's Final Cut Studio support site.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/resources/supportdevices.php

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Answer 3

Aug 25, 2008 5:19 AM in response to Andy Mees

Andy Mees wrote:

for some unknown reason, apple does not have the technical ability to allow AVCHD to be edited in the older version of Final Cut

Its not an unknown reason, Victor. Your older version of FCP was coded prior to the establishment of AVCHD as a mainstream consumer format that might reasonably be expected to be need to be supported. Just as my old 4:3 black and white TV can't display a color picture or an HD picture or a full frame 16:9 picture, because it was engineered prior to the establishment of such formats, I'd need to upgrade it (replace it with a newer set) to get support for such newfangled technology ... you need to upgrade your version of FCP if you want support for the latest video formats.

I would beg to differ here.....its not like we are changing from an analog signal to a digital one (fundamental hardware differences), we are talking just a data compression format--just a different way to visualize and store data--it shouldn't take a $500 upgrade to do that--and with the previous analogy, it would require an upgrade of my Macintosh...which it shouldn't require, because in the end, it is just 1's and 0's and how they are stored on a hard drive and manipulated by the CPU and video card. So I'm still having a difficult time understanding why AVCHD can't work on a Power PC based Mac other than someone just doesn't want to code it.

what I need to do is convert the AVCHD to a format that my version of Final Cut can work with--any ideas on how to do this

You can try VoltaicHD from ShedWorx, which can convert your source files to a format (Apple Intermediate Codec) which is supported by your hardware/software
http://www.shedworx.com/?q=volmac-home

Thanks!

What gives...is AVCHD video conversion really that hard

Yes actually it is very complicated. AVCHD is a highly compressed acquisition format and certainly not a post production format as the complexity of the compression algorithm does not lend itself to real time processing (at least not yet with the current state of technological advancement).

But doesn't the latest version of Final Cut (only on an Intel based Mac that is) work with AVCHD? If so, why can't it work on a Power PC?

why is there such a compelling drive to have final cut work with specific cameras?

As with any complex hardware/software setup. Some configurations will be known to be fully compatible and some less so. This is just the real world and the way it works. You can find a full list of directly and fully supported hardware on Apple's Final Cut Studio support site.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/resources/supportdevices.php

What I meant here is why is Final Cut wedded to specific camcorders rather than being an open system that is wedded to data formats--if it is tied to a data format, vice hardware, upgrades to different data formats should not be difficult--a SOA and open ended architecture should be standard in this day and age.

Again, thanks for all the help and information!
Vic

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Answer 4

Nick Holmes

Level 7

30,018 points

Aug 25, 2008 5:50 AM in response to Victor Grycenkov

why can't it work on a Power PC?

The Voltaic site has a FAQ on AVCHD and quotes the following:
"...it takes about 12 times as long as the original footage to convert the clip."

Measured on a Mac Book Pro with dual 2.0 GHz Intel processors. You can probably double that time for a PPC G5. This may have something to do with there being no Apple native support on non Intel machines.

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Answer 5

Andy Mees

Level 6

12,610 points

Aug 25, 2008 6:23 AM in response to Victor Grycenkov

I would beg to differ here.

You can beg all you like Victor but it won't change anything. You're clearly annoyed because you bought a version of FCP when it suited your needs ... and now your needs have changed but you don't want to have to upgrade to the new version which supports those needs. Tough luck mate.

it shouldn't take a $500 upgrade to do that

It doesn't. The five hundred bucks buys all the features of the upgrade in all of the FCS applications ... it even includes a brand new high end color grading application. Its not "AVCHD support for FCP" its a total no brainer bargain.

But doesn't the latest version of Final Cut (only on an Intel based Mac that is) work with AVCHD?

No. It supports log and transfer of AVCHD where the raw AVCHD data is transcoded during transfer to the AIC or ProRes 422 codec ... it doesn't support raw editing if AVCHD media.

why is Final Cut wedded to specific camcorders ...

Its not. Its wedded to the data format that the camera's shoot ... however when individual camera manufacturers introduce variants to those data formats or entirely new data formats then FCP needs to be upgraded t cope with these variants.

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Answer 6

David S.

Level 7

20,630 points

Aug 25, 2008 8:03 AM in response to Andy Mees

As they say, you can either curse the darkness or light a light.

AVCHD isn't supported on your version of FCP and a non-Intel Mac.

Voltaic is one, very slow, solution.

Them's the facts.

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Answer 7

Nick Holmes

Level 7

30,018 points

Aug 25, 2008 8:18 AM in response to David S.

David, have you worked with AVCHD yet?

I have managed to avoid it so far and from what I've read, it seems to be an awful hassle converting it first. Now I have a client who wants to deliver this format.

He might have blue screen shots too. Should I tell him to go away?

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Answer 8

Sammoj

Level 1

25 points

Aug 25, 2008 8:27 AM in response to Victor Grycenkov

I would really recommend a DV tape based camcorder. I had exactly this dilema before I went to Australia earlier this year. I ended up buying a Canon HV20 just to avoid the Powermac G5 upgrade. On my return I tried editing HDV with Final Cut Pro 5 and it was ok, but rendering was a bit slow in the timeline. So I upgraded to Studio V2 and wow what a difference, my Powermac got a new lease of life and editing at full HD is great. I can really recommend the Canon HV20 and I guess the newer HV30 which gave me stunning results of my trip.

I have heard mixed comments on AVCHD. One of the main killers for me apart from the Powermac upgrade was the number of 8GB memory chips I would have needed to cover 4 weeks away from a computer.

J

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Answer 9

Aug 25, 2008 9:25 AM in response to Andy Mees

I don't beg.
I was being polite in my language in trying to understand the technology, I got my copy of FCS and I'm happy with it (as a matter of fact, I got a legal copy for half price, so I cannot complain). I'm just annoyed with Apple's business decision to have FC support AVCHD transfers only on intel based macs...its a way for a business to grow its profits by forcing people to upgrade hardware when a software solution should work.
I do have a solution...I can purchase a the JVC GZ-HD6 and use Quicktime to convert to DV and then it works fine (that's how I got it to work with a GZ-HD7) I was just trying to see if any headway has been made with FC and AVCHD.
But thank you for clarifying that FC does not directly support AVCHD (didn't realize that) and that FC is not wedded to a camera but the data associated with a camera (again didn't realize that), I just found it on apples web site (AVCHD and AVC-Intra editing support using ProRes (requires Mac Pro)).
Thanks for the advice everyone
V

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Answer 10

David S.

Level 7

20,630 points

Aug 25, 2008 9:55 AM in response to Nick Holmes

I have with two cams:

HG10 and a SD9 from Panasonic.

To say the least, I was disappointed.

Our main cam is a HVX200 and soon a HPX170.

We wanted a small B roll, but AVCHD doesn't cut it as yet.

Perhaps the HMC150 will.

But I want FCP to edit it natively

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Answer 11

Aug 25, 2008 10:22 AM in response to Victor Grycenkov

I'm just annoyed with Apple's business decision to have FC support AVCHD transfers only on intel based macs...its a way for a business to grow its profits by forcing people to upgrade hardware when a software solution should work.

Victor,

You've got it wrong here. This is a horsepower issue. AVCHD has to be converted and it takes a long time and a lot of processing power. PPC's just don't have the necessary horsepower to perform the task at an acceptable level. Would imagine, but I don't have any real knowledge of this, that it may be like capturing to HDV to ProRes over FW. Apple says that it will not work on a G5, however, a few folks have managed to get acceptable results. In other words, it is not supported, but your mileage may vary.

I was just trying to see if any headway has been made with FC and AVCHD.

It has, and it's called FCS2.

(as a matter of fact, I got a legal copy for half price, so I cannot complain)

Doubtful.

K

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Answer 12

David S.

Level 7

20,630 points

Aug 25, 2008 10:43 AM in response to Victor Grycenkov

Look how long it takes Voltaic to convert footage on a PPC.

12x.

That's why Intel Macs are required.

There aren't any black helicopters here

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