display anomalies

Hi Ian. Have you determined if you can bypass the issue by downgrading (running 10.4 or early 10.5 builds)? While it's likely that some cases are hardware related, even if a software bug is prevalent, your conclusion seems to presume that Apple's Hardware Test is all encompassing. I can assure you that as a past service provider and consultant for over 12 years, I've had countless occasions where Apple's Hardware Test passes flawlessly, yet a hardware problem exists. I've seen this most often with memory and hard drives, but frequently with logic board failures and GPUs, as well. I recall posts on the X1600 issue which discuss how downgrading as far back as 10.4 has not eliminated the problem, once it becomes systemic - which indicate a hardware issue in those cases. I haven't invested the time to test older OS versions myself. Anyone done comprehensive testing by OS and versions? I'm wondering if there might be some credence to the issue manifesting itself after a 10.5.X and Graphics Update in some cases. My gut feeling is that because of the age of these systems, it's not likely that enough have been brought directly to Apple for service to conclude a widespread hardware failure. I'm confident they have a quality assurance provision that's triggered by virtue of the number of instances that a particular condition is identified through their service network. Apple would have little to gain by not addressing such a widespread condition if they had the data to support it. I really think this is just a case of them not having been faced with it enough times to warrant action. Unfortunately, posting here or anywhere else doesn't provide hard statistics for Apple. I'd urge everyone experiencing the issue to make an appointment with a Genius or an Apple Authorized Service Provider, explain the likelihood of it being common and stress that they relay the findings to the appropriate department at Apple. I believe this is the only way there's any hope for action by Apple. Keep in mind that it's also within the discretion for an Apple Store to make you a reasonable trade-in offer towards a replacement in these cases; if all else fails. While unfortunate considering the premium we pay for Apple hardware, it's still better than nothing, IMHO. I'm personally going to visit an Apple Store on Monday with my 17" and I'll report back with my findings. Thanks everyone and good luck. 🙂

I haven't spent the time regression testing further OS's than 10.5.8 and 10.6.4/5. I have spend way too many hours trying to define the problem, and stopped at filing a bug report with Apple. That Apple acknowledges there is a bug is enough for me for now.

I understand that Apple Hardware Test is not a complete test. Since AHT does not report a hardware problem and that problem can be eliminated by software manipulation, it seems more likely that software/drivers rather than hardware is at fault.

I have done enough torture testing of my system to demonstrate to a reasonable likelihood that a bug causes overheating and not the other way around. If I could thermally provoke a failure, I'd accept that a hardware issue is likely, but I have not been able to, even to temps in the high 80's degC.

The Safari crashing bug puts Safari/Quartz graphics handling on the bug list too. I have sent bug reports on Safari. The other way people can highlight the problem at Apple is to send Safari crash reports. (drag-scrolling page www.apple.com/appleTV usually does it)

I suspect I could eliminate the problem in 10.5.8 by downgrading a load of apps, but was hoping Apple would fix the bug, probably for 10.6.6, before I spent all that time experimenting.

In the end, most users have a few real options:
1. Fork out for a new mobo and hope their problem stays resolved
2. Clean out software corruption and scrub ATIRadeonX1000.kext and live with a mildly crippled system and save the bucks for a better day
3. Write off their computer and buy a new one

I'm seriously looking to option 3, but since my system is functional, there is no immediate need.

The only way to get significant leverage otherwise would be to follow the legal route. That usually gets Apple moving.....

Re: no evidence for it being a hardware bug.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2570597&tstart=0&messageID=129 37822#12937822

Just want to let everyone know I'm another one having the exact same problems as everyone else. 2006 MBP with X1600 graphics. Thanks Ian for doing a lot of research into this. I think I'm going to reapply thermal paste and use his recipe.

I'll report my results.

I posted this in a related thread, but wanted to share it here, as well...

After reading other posts which showed no improvement with the recent 10.6.6 update, I tested a downgrade from 10.6.5 back to 10.5.3 last night, after zeroing the drive and resetting SMC and zapping PRAM. I chose this OS, because it was the last version of OS I ran before the problems began for me. With 10.6.x, I'd get a gray screen just after the kexts loaded and the system would be frozen. With 10.5.3, I experienced a wild pattern of graphics anomalies just after the kexts load and the system would also be unusable. We decided to head to a mall today which is an hour away that has an Apple Store, so I scheduled a Genius appointment. After discussing the matter's background briefly with a Genius, he attempted a regular boot and witnessed the gray screen freeze just after the kexts load before login. I shared that a Safe Boot will bypass the kexts and allow access to the system. I also pointed out that the GPU failure artifacts are present even after the safe boot and he witnessed and documented the anomalies present by the cursor (rows of horizontal lines). He then attempted a Netboot from a full OS which froze before the Window Manager, just like I experienced; showing that my OS install's integrity was not suspect. He then booted into EFI-based diagnostics via Netboot that circumvents the kexts and allows comprehensive diagnostics. The only error that was posted in his diagnostics was the right fan, but there was no evidence of GPU failure in the test itself. We both acknowledged the pitfalls of some failures with Apple's Hardware Tests. He, as well as the other Geniuses have all witnessed circumstances where a failure is present but not evident in Apple's provided hardware tests. As a prior consultant and service provider myself, we shared some related personal experiences which were similar in this regard. After documenting the experience in detail at my request (including these specific thread references), he offered me the flat rate repair of $310 with a 90-day warranty on the replacement of the logic board, fan and lcd (which had some minor signs of wear). I told him of my concerns that others who have opted for the repair had the problem resurface shortly down the road - indicating that the refurbished parts used in the repairs have not had the issue resolved. He assured me that if such a situation occurs, we would simply have to return to an Apple Store (even after the 90 day warranty period) to discuss the matter - which would already be documented; and they would work to make the situation right. He also said that should Apple decide to initiate some sort of repair extension for this in the near future, that we would be able to get reimbursed for our $310 flat rate repair charge. So I'd recommend that EVEN IF YOU OPT NOT TO GET YOUR SYSTEM REPAIRED, please get it diagnosed at an Apple Store, if possible. According to the Apple Genius who helped me today, the results of the EFI-based diagnostics and the written report of the Genius are automatically sent to Apple Engineering for review. If this is really a widespread occurrence (as it would appear) and you seriously wish to receive some sort of reparation for this failure, I can think of no better way to make your case. I'll report back once I receive the repaired system and have a chance to assess the returned system and performance. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to these threads.

Thanks for the info. My problem is that the freezing and horizontal lines are so sporadic and usually crop with with intense GPU workout. I'm afraid I'll go there and they won't even see a problem!

Hi GordonFreemanQ. Mine started sporadically, but became much more frequent over the course of just a few weeks and now won't boot with the ATI kexts enabled. You can take pictures of the screen and provide those with this URL; which I provided in the comments section when I scheduled my Genius appointment. They can load test the GPU in their testing, so it shouldn't be hard to trigger the failure. In my experiences, reasonable requests that are made with facts in a respectful way are always met with favorable results. BTW, I found a utility a few months back called High Load which helps stress test a Mac. A search for "High Load Mac" will find it. Good luck to you.

For those that are curious, some screenshots of the horizontal line desktop glitch on my machine.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ian.r.cheong/CheongianMBPA1150ArchiveInstallNewuser? authkey=Gv1sRgCLuV2L3lypbNOQ
This is reliably resolvable after system cleaning but with ATIRadeonX1000.kext present will eventually recur. When present, behaves erratically and error propagates. A sequence of about 30 logout/logins shows the glitch changes cyclically through to normal.

Attempts to provoke graphics corruption by thermal stress testing have failed, conversely, it appears software bugs raise temperatures by burning CPU cycles.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ian.r.cheong/CheongianMBPA1150ArchiveInstallNewuser? authkey=Gv1sRgCLuV2L3lypbNOQ

The images posted are the ones I submitted in my bug report to Apple, who said it was a known bug, but perhaps it was the design issue that spawned the development of the unibody????

The obvious possibilities for such low-level errors include hardware (solder joint failure), firmware corruption, and ATIRadeonX1000.kext bug.

I note the cases of the pre-unibody MacBookPros tend to bend over time under their own weight + beign supported at the ends by the rubber feet. So I put a small pile of plastic cards under the spot where the GPU/heatsink is to see if a little reverse bending and natural system baking under its own load might eventually help potential BGA solder joints. I looked into a professional solder reflow as an option, but at this stage consider large amounts of repair money/time better spent on a new machine. Suppose it is time I had another attempt reinstalling the ATIRadeonX1000.kext.....

After about 60 days glitch free without ATIRadeonX1000.kext, tried reinstalling it to see what happened.

Within a few hours, the beginnings of glitches start to appear without any particular large thermal stress. The seemingly random color patches on the activity monitor window reliably disappear with window resizing, but can be screen grabbed before that. Desktop had usual horizontal line glitch. So have cleaned out system again and living without 3d graphics acceleration on this machine.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ian.r.cheong/Displayanomalies?authkey=Gv1sRgCIXD8L_r 89Gq3wE

Well, put me on the list as well. I have a MacBook Pro 2006 2,1 with ATI X1600. Exact same problems as everyone here. Just a quick backgraound about my person before I give my 2 cents on this issue: I refurbish laptops for a living and I have encountered many windows and mac problems wether it be software or hardware. I am very patient when troubleshooting and like looking under every stone to see if I can resolve a particular problem. I have now spent about 1 month trying to resolve this Diplay Anomalies issue. Am very frustrated with it.

First, like all, *by removing the ATIRadeonX1000.kext* and other related files, MBP runs acceptable but without any 3D acceleration. Basically you end up with a regular laptop just for basic web browsing and music playback.

Second, I have tried the "*downgrading approach*" where I went back to Leopard 10.5.x versions from Snow Leopard and similar issue persisted. Tried installing Windows 7 with BootCamp and MBP locked after install on the Welcome Screen.

Third, the "*lower temperature approach*" tried cleaning MBP, opened it up, blasted air and brushed the fans, etc..etc..and did not help at all. Still getting lock ups, no video on start up, freezing while using apps etc...etc..

Lastly I'd like to add that my next attempt to solve this issue will include *GOING BACK TO 10.4.x (TIGER)*. I will do Clean Install with my Tiger Restore DVD's and will get back to you all very soon to see how it behaves with the original software.

Message was edited by: H3GotGam3

I don't think bootcamp would install cleanly without the deep system clean mentioned in my earlier posts.
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=12702258#12702258

Curious that you haven't done the thermal paste yet. Do you do solder reflows in your work?

I have the problem of a psychedelic screen so am assuming its the same problem with the ATI Radeon X1600 - i'Ve read 3 discussion groups on this topic on these forums!!

What I would like to know is - will apple replace this faulty part - and what with and any idea as to how much??

Has there been a Mac recall for the ATI Radeon X1600?

Just want to let everyone know I'm another one having the exact same problems as everyone else. Early 2006 MBP 2.16Ghz with X1600 graphics. Rectangular blocks have appeared diagonally across the screen and the computer refuses to turn on properly. After initially starting it goes to a blue screen and refuses to go further.

I have spoken to an Apple authorized service engineer who have suggested I reinstall the OS. He reckons if that doesn't solve the issue then a new logic board will be required for approximately £700! Hoping Apple issue a recall/some kind of solution soon.

after having posted yesterday i did a search for recalls and under something called TS2377 apple are replacing the piece of hardware even if the machine is out of warranty.
Then I rang the authorised repair people in adelaide Mac Alert and was told they would have to test and if they couldn't find the problem would not replace. Sigh - what does that mean - sooo often these things don't show up in test conditions!
oh well thats monday's job. I'm going to Mac Alert in south australia so will let you know!