Bounced aif files reject iTunes ID3 tags

Question

Bounced aif files reject iTunes ID3 tags

Here is the regular procedure:
In Logic, you bounce a song to aiff open that aif file in iTunes - add Metatags to it (Album, Composer, etc) - everything is displayed nicely in iTunes - iTunes will add the Metatags info to the aif file - you open that aif file on a different machine and all the Metatag info is there - if you open the aif file in a text editor and scroll down to the end of the file you can actually see the Metatag info.

The strange thing is that it doesn't work anymore:
I can still add the metatags in iTunes, but that info is only stored in the iTunes Library and doesn't get saved to the actual aif file. If I have the Finder window open for a newly bounced aif file and I make the first metatag entry in iTunes, I can see that the Modification Date of the file gets updated. After that the file doesn't react to any changes in iTunes. It seems that iTune's first attempt to write to the aif file get acknowledged (new modification date) but something went wrong and any further attempt will be ignored. BTW the first metatags didn't get written to the file despite the updated modification date. Opening the aif file in a text editor confirms that no ID3 tags have been added to the end of the file.
This problem happens only to aif bounces. The mp3 and aac bounced files react normal.

Files that I have bounced a couple of month ago behave normal in regards to iTunes metatags. Of course a lot variables have changed in the meantime.
The following components I have tested: Logic8, Logic7, iTunes8, iTunes7.71, Intel, PPC. Same result. The only constant in my testing is the OS, that is 10.5.4

Could it be that something in the latest OSX versions creates the problem?

I would be really curious if you guys could confirm this weird behavior depending on your system config.

Thanks

2 MacPros 2.8GHz 8core - 12GB RAM, Mac OS X (10.5.4), Logic 8.02

Posted on Sep 13, 2008 5:18 PM

Reply

Answer 1

ifwuh

Level 2

445 points

Sep 13, 2008 9:10 PM in response to EdgarRothermich

I'd be really interested in finding out why it's not working.
We should create a step by step test and set of shared files so that anyone who
wants to test will know how to do it and know what to look for.
In other words, standardize a workflow to check this.

Reply

Answer 2

Sep 16, 2008 10:31 AM in response to ifwuh

I uploaded one of those stubborn aiff files. Please run a quick test and post your result.

http://homepage.mac.com/edgarrothermich/.Public/Screenshots/Metatag_Resistent-Fi le.aif

1) Download the "Metatag_Resisten-File.aif"
2) Drag the file into your iTunes
3) Change any of the Metatags (Composer, Comments, etc)
4) View the file in the Finder (command+R) and see if the modification date has been updated.
4a) if yes then the metatags seemed to be added to the file
4b) if no then the metatags were not added to the file
5a) Double check by dragging the file in a different iTunes Library and see if iTunes displays the Metatags
5b) Optional: Double check by opening the file in a text editor and see if the metatags have been added to the bottom of the file
6) Repeat step 3-5 with any other aif file on your machine
7) Please post your result with the info about the version number of OSX, iTunes, PPC/Intel or any other info you think might be important

Thanks

Reply

Answer 3

ifwuh

Level 2

445 points

Sep 16, 2008 4:17 PM in response to EdgarRothermich

Here are my results.
_short version __________________________
YES IT WORKS on
MacBookPro
iTunes 7.4.2
OS 10.4.10
QuickTime 7.2.0 Player version 7.2

DOES NOT WORK on
iMac
iTunes 7.7
OS 10.5.4
QuickTime 7.5

__longer version __________________________
File freshly downloaded = mod date Today: 12:37PM
(a few minutes elapse while I type this up)
Drag file to iTunes.
Change meta data by adding in year "2008" and genre "Electronic". close window.
Quit iTunes (the action of quitting iTunes, writes the newly crated entry in the library for this file into the "iTunes Music Library.xml" file.
Switch to Finder and do command + i in on the file and file mod date has changed to Today at 12:41PM.
IT DID CHANGE.
Now, so an entry now exists in the iTunes library file and .xml files.
I wait a few minutes. and will make another change in the meta data...
I add some lyrics, "this song is a test of meta data and mod date."
Close window, quit iTunes.
Switch to Finder and do command + i on the file and file mod date has changed to "Today 12:46PM"
IT DID CHANGE now twice.
It seems that iTunes is updating the actual file when adding more metadata, and not just updating the file "iTunes Library" that
is just a reference to the file.

The 3 files of interest here are :
hardrive/ user/ username / music / iTunes / iTunes Library
hardrive/ user/ username / music / iTunes / iTunes Music Library.xml
hardrive/ user/ username / Desktop / Metatag_Resistent-File.aif

MacBookPro
iTunes 7.4.2
OS 10.4.10
QuickTime 7.2.0 Player version 7.2

I also did a test on an
iMac
iTunes 7.7
OS 10.5.4
QuickTime 7.5
File freshly downloaded = mod date Today: 03:55 PM
(a few minutes elapse while I type this up)
Drag file to iTunes.
Change meta data by adding alubm "Test metadata album", BPM "120" Senre "Soul".
Close iTunes file info window.
Quit iTunes.
Switch to Finder and do command + i in on the file and file mod date has changed to Today at 03:55PM.
DID NOT CHANGE !
Now, so an entry now exists in the iTunes library file and .xml files.
I wait a few minutes. and will make another change in the meta data...
I add some lyrics, "Oh Crap, the meta data stuff isn't working!"
Close window, quite iTunes.
Switch to Finder and do command + i in on the file and file mod date has changed to "Today at 03:55PM"
DID NOT CHANGE now twice... DOES NOT WORK !

Reply

Answer 4

Sep 16, 2008 9:39 PM in response to ifwuh

Thanks

It looks like the problem is not Logic but the OSX itself or maybe iTunes.
In my previous post, I listed all the components/versions but not the OSX version. The first thing I noticed on your specs is the OSX 10.4.11 test was successful but not the one with the OSX 10.5.4.

So now it is getting interesting. I fired up an "older" G5:
1) OSX 10.4.11 with iTunes 7.6.1
YES, iTunes writes the Metatags to the aiff file.
2) Same OSX 10.4.11 installed the iTunes 8.0
NO, iTunes CANNOT write to the aiff file
3) Same OSX 1.4.11 launched iTunes 7.3.2 from a second hard drive on that machine
YES, iTunes can write to the aiff file

Does that mean that the culprit is iTunes? Version 7.6 and earlier work but not 7.7 and later. This seems to be regardless of the version of the OS, Logic or the PPC/Intel processor.

Conclusion:
iTunes 7.7 or later cannot write Metatags to an original aiff file that was bounced from Logic Pro !
No problem once that file is converted in iTunes or if the original bounced file is a AAC or mp3 file. Who's to blame Logic or iTunes?

Workaround:
Have an old iTunes 7.6 on the system. Converting the file in iTunes is not an option because iTunes still doesn't support 24bit. (This is the first thing I check everytime a new iTunes version comes out). Adding Metatags in Logic is only possible for mp3 or AAC files but not for iTunes.

Any more input that can confirm that theory?

Reply

Answer 5

Eriksimon

Level 6

15,428 points

Sep 17, 2008 1:26 AM in response to EdgarRothermich

Hi,

I did the test too.
PPC G4 dual 1,25 GHz 1,25 GB RAM
OS X 10.5.5
iTunes 8.0
Quicktime 7.5.5

No metatags written. 😟

HOWEVER...
I then tried it on a few of my own Logic bounces, and then it does work... on M4a's as well as on AIFF's... 🙂
BUT...
I looked in texteditor, and in spite of the fact that the date on the files had changed to today, I could not find any metatags within the files themselves... 😮

???

regards, Erik.

Reply

Answer 6

ifwuh

Level 2

445 points

Sep 17, 2008 12:33 PM in response to EdgarRothermich

At this point I think it's an iTunes problem and we should take this
discussion over to that forum?
I did 3 more tests, with versions of iTunes 7.1.1 and 7.3 and 7.62 and they all worked.
Checked the test file in TextEdit and all the newly added metadata was there at the bottom.
There are many old iTunes installers out there if you need them, do a google for "Old versions of iTunes"
All these new tests were on a MacBookPro running OS 10.4.10
did work, seems any version of iTunes UP TO version 7.6.2 are good, and the problem
starts with version 7.7 (july 10. '08?) 7.7 or above is bad for writing metadata into an aif file.

Reply

Answer 7

ifwuh

Level 2

445 points

Dec 1, 2008 7:16 PM in response to EdgarRothermich

Edgar,

What is the status of meta data now (2 moths later) with the Newer iTunes such as 8.01 or 8.02?
Just wondering if you have identified any new problems or things fixed?

Reply