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colt_777 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
Is there any talk of an SDK for Windows? I have been trying to get OS X 10.5 running on vmware for weeks now, without any luck (Probably due to the fact that I'm running on an AMD Athlon 64). Annoyingly, I got 10.4 to run fine but the SDK doesn't run on 10.4.

I would pay through the nose for a Windows iPhone SDK, and I'm not the only one out there.

PC, Windows Vista, AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+, GeForce 8600 GT, Gigabyte AM59SLI-S4 Board
  • Kakiser Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Since the iPhone uses OS X for the operating system, and all of the libraries are Cocoa, and are designed for OS X I would assume not.

    I don't know about running 10.5.x on anything other than Apple hardware. You can pick up a mac mini relatively cheap and use a KVM switch for the keyboard/mouse/monitor sharing with your PC.
  • Allan Sampson Level 10 Level 10 (123,385 points)
    I seriously doubt a Windows iPhone/iPod Touch SDK will be made available.

    If you would be willing to pay through the nose for a Windows iPhone SDK, why not spend $600 on a Mac Mini instead? This will provide for running the iPhone SDK, and you can also install and run Windows natively without doing anything special.
  • colt_777 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Well in Oz they are being sold for $849, which is pretty steep if I am only going to use it for one application...
  • Allan Sampson Level 10 Level 10 (123,385 points)
    I was only going by this statement which was copied from your original post.

    I would pay through the nose for a Windows iPhone SDK, and I'm not the only one out there.

    I guess $849 is more than your through the nose amount.

    This shouldn't be a problem for a serious developer that plans on selling a developed iPhone/iPod Touch application via the iTunes app store if approved by Apple. Such a relatively small investment in the scheme of things would likely be recouped in a very short period of time and then some depending on what the app is for and the quality.

    I read an article about a developer for an iPhone/iPod Touch app that is available via the iTunes app store who initially did so on a part time basis. With the amount of revenue he has made in a short period of time, he quit his full time job to devote 100% of his time to his app development/improvement and to develop additional apps. I believe he has also hired some full time help so he ended up starting his own very profitable business with little or no overhead due to the iPhone/iPod Touch SDK.
  • Earless Puppy Level 4 Level 4 (1,905 points)
    look for a mac mini
  • colt_777 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    well, it really depends.. my through the nose amount for software is less than that, depending on what the software does. It's all relative.

    I wish they could just publish a windows sdk and charge say $50 for it...
  • Allan Sampson Level 10 Level 10 (123,385 points)
    I wish they could just publish a windows sdk and charge say $50 for it...

    I venture to say, this isn't going to happen.

    The iPhone/iPod Touch SDK provides the only avenue to sell an app via the iTunes app store, and since Apple sells computers with an OS and applications designed for it, Apple has less to gain with investing resources to port the iPhone/iPod Touch SDK over to Windows along with the required support for it. The serious developers probably already had a Mac with the required specifications to begin with and if not, Apple sells another computer in the process. And the number of developers approved for submitting apps to Apple to be available via the app store is not unlimited. The last report I recall, I believe between 4 and 5 thousand were approved, which may have increased some since that time.
  • colt_777 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    I don't want to publish to the app store I just want to make my own apps to use on my own phone, and yes you are right in saying that making the sdk available only on mac os x 10.5 sells computers, but it also annoys a lot of windows users, and with the rate of developers on windows obviously far outweighing those coding on macs I am sure there would be more angry devs then macs sold for the purpose of using the sdk. Can't they see this? Don't they see that pleasing as many people as possible will make them money? I believe Apple's pride and set ways are the main reasons they are not doing as well as they could be.

    Message was edited by: colt_777
  • roaminggnome Level 10 Level 10 (94,075 points)
    Apple certainly does not want you making your own software for your own use. They do not allow that even on a Mac. All Apps must go through itunes. To install your own apps without itunes would require hacking which violates Apples licensing agreement, voids the warranty, will likely brick the phone if you try to update the software, and you can get no help on this forum for hacked iphones.
  • Allan Sampson Level 10 Level 10 (123,385 points)
    The SDK is primarily for serious developers interested in developing an app to be available via the iTunes app store as a free or paid app. There is also a developer enterprise program for a company with 500 or more employees that is interested in developing and deploying proprietary in-house applications to authorized users in the company only.

    Selling the SDK to Windows users for only $50 when becoming a registered developer costs $99 for the standard program and $299 for the enterprise program just for some that are interested in developing their own apps for their iPhone only, along with support cost for many of the Windows users that certainly would follow just so some Windows users can develop their own app for their iPhone which doesn't gain Apple anything? Along with the resources and cost involved with porting the SDK to Windows in the first place and following support cost, this would be a losing venture for Apple with nothing gained. The more quality apps made available via the app store is a potential gain for Apple - not from the sale of apps which is probably a break even, but from the availability of good apps over time that will likely help to increase iPhone and iPod Touch sales.

    Just as the iTunes Store for the sale of music and video is designed and set up to be a break even for Apple with the profit gained from iPod and iPhone sales. Even though Apple develops and has their own OS and software, they are primarily a hardware company first and foremost, so computer sales will continue to be important. And with a Mac including an Intel processor, one can install and run Windows and Windows applications natively on a Mac for the best of both worlds if both are needed.

    An Apple computer with an Intel processor is capable of running more applications than a Windows PC natively - all Windows applications and all OS X applications.

    I am sure that anyone interested in serious development for the iPhone which the SDK is designed for already had a Mac, or purchasing at least a Mac Mini was not a big problem or a hinderance. And the same for a company with 500 or more employees that wants to make use of the developer enterprise program.

    I believe Apple's pride and set ways are the main reasons they are not doing as well as they could be.

    Apple is doing plenty well because they are profitable, which is most important. And doubtful that selling the iPhone/iPod Touch SDK for $50 to Windows users interested in developing their own app for their iPhone only would be a profitable venture - not with the upfront cost to port it to Windows and the resulting and ongoing support costs that wouldn't gain Apple anything in the long run, and this definitely would not help sell more Apple computers.
  • colt_777 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Then make it more than $50. They could sell it for $200 and people would still pay for it, just like millions of people have paid more than $500 for Visual Studio. That's not the point. What I'm trying to argue is the fact that the windows developer community far outnumbers the mac dev community. Plain and simple. There is no negative outcome as far as I can see, if Apple were to break into that community. Sure it would cost them a bit of money to transpose the SDK to Windows, but once it's done, it's done, and it's not going to cost them any more to support a Windows SDK than a Mac OS X SDK. Microsoft didn't lose any money from making Office available to Mac OS users. On the flipside Apple will get a massive community more interested in their products, which leads to my second argument.

    Before iTunes was available for Windows I had absolutely no interest in buying an iPod, or using Mac OS. When I bought one it opened my eyes a little more to Apple's products, and in turn to Mac OS. I'm not the only one. Every new Apple product that makes it's way into a Windows machine makes more Windows users reconsider their view on Apple and it's products. It has for me, and it has for a lot of other Windows-only users. How can that possibly be a bad thing? How can releasing a product to a much larger clientbase be a BAD thing?

    You can't seriously argue that it will cost Apple more to create a Windows SDK than they will make in profits... They are going to sell more than 10 copies. More than 100, more than 1000. A lot more.
  • Allan Sampson Level 10 Level 10 (123,385 points)
    Although Apple develops and sells their own OS and software, Apple is a hardware company that sells computers - end of story.

    If you haven't purchased a Mac by now (which runs a whole bunch more software - all Windows and OS X software and Windows natively), I venture to say you aren't going to anytime soon if ever. Especially with your comment about paying $800 for a Mini which you would use for only one thing - the iPhone SDK for your own personal app for your iPhone only - which you can't do with the SDK anyway.

    As I said before, purchasing a Mac (even if just a Mini) for any serious developer interested in developing software for the iPhone at a profit who doesn't already own an Intel Mac running both OS X and Windows, is likely not a big problem or hurdle for them. They can continue developing Windows applications and work on iPhone apps with a single computer running OS X and Windows and all OS X and Windows applications natively. If I was a Windows user for personal use (never have been and never will) I would want a Mac for this very reason, which can't be done with a Windows PC without hacking, or running an emulator, or what have you.

    Anyone so upset by this who doesn't already own a Mac and who doesn't become motivated to finally take the plunge is not likely to do so at any time. I don't think porting the SDK to Windows would have much affect on changing a Windows user's mind about purchasing a Mac.
  • colt_777 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    I am upset because the fact that you could design your own apps was a major selling point for me (Apple didn't go out of their way to let anyone know that this was only for mac users).

    By the way what did you mean when you said you can't code your own apps for your iPhone with the SDK?
  • Allan Sampson Level 10 Level 10 (123,385 points)
    Didn't go out of their way?

    I suggest that you watch last year's March event which announced the iPhone/iPod Touch SDK where this info was provided, and was provided via the SDK download link under required computer specifications. I'm not sure what else they could have done to go out of their way and whatever that is, why should Apple need to?

    I'm sorry but this is plain old common sense. I didn't need to watch the March event knowing that if you want to develop an iPhone app for the iPhone that runs a special version of OS X, you would need a Mac running OS X.

    I meant just what I said. You cannot use the IPhone SDK to develop an app to be installed on your iPhone only for your own personal use. The enterprise development program allows for this for apps developed by a company and distributed to company issued iPhones only with a 500 employee minimum required.
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