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Aug 9, 2010 2:37 PM in response to D Cheersby thorgal73,Easiest back up is through the use of a FireWire cable and another Mac. Boot up your MBP in Target Disk mode (just hold T when booting) while the two are connected through FireWire and you can access your hard disk from the other Mac.
If you don't have another Mac and/or a FireWire cable you'll have to try over a local network. When running (snow) leopard it shouldn't be too difficult to see your MBP over the network, unless it won't boot at all anymore. -
Aug 10, 2010 9:08 AM in response to thorgal73by Edbert,Not sure which version of the problem the OP has but in my case the target disk mode was NOT an option. The thing never chimed or POST(ed) so there were no bootup options at all even resetting the PRAM.
If that is the case about the only thing I can think of for backing up your HDD is to remove it and put it into an external SATA enclosure. They are dirt-cheap as long as you are not at the Apple Store. -
Aug 24, 2010 11:14 PM in response to Brett Lby SimoneGianni,It's early morning here, and I spent the whole night reading this thread (and the previous) from june 2008 up to latest messages ... it has been one of the best IT/computer/technology related thing I've been reading in last few years!
I came here cause a friend of mine's MBP 15" (early 2008 etc..) is currently in the common situation of no screen, NVidia card detected as an Intel one and all the rest .. we'll bring it to Apple and hope for a fast replace.
I have no solution to the problem, tried a lot of things, had a few success (it managed to start correctly a couple of times) and now i can access it via remote desktop, voiceover etc.. but no screen.
However, even if Apple should change it for free quite easily, there are a few things about this problem I haven't managed to understand yet :
1) This thread is still alive after two years. The computer I've been trying to fix is nearly three years old, and IT HAS ALWAYS WORKED PROPERLY, under Linux and Windows, also with graphically intensive stuff, until yesterday it was rebooted in OSX and the 1.5.1 EFI firmware was installed. This is happening to a lot of people .. most of the people reporting the problem in the last months say "after an update" or "worked for two years in windows". This made me think "oh, it's the firmware that is broken"
2) I burnt my legs using this MBP on the sofa ... it got really HOT, but really really HOT, many times .. don't tell me the GPU problem is that it gets hot.
3) The 1.5.1 EFI firmware was released more than two years ago, a few days after the 1.5.0, and then never updated. This seems like NOT a firmware problem (or probably it is .... but a strange one), otherwise a after two years a new version would be out, fixing it.
4) Firmware is a software .. as such it should be possible to downgrade it. I've personally downgraded old PC bioses, modem and routers firmwares, all the way up to downgrading my iPhone when it was still to be jailbroken. So, if 1.5.1 was so faulty while previous versions worked properly, the "sorry, it's not possible to downgrade it" statements sounds ... strange.
5) A few other things behave strangely, and are reported by many other users. For example, the led on the button (the only led a macbook has), now become brighter depending on ambient light ... even before OSX boot .. event while keeping the power button pressed to start the "recovery firmware from CD" mode. My knowledge of electronics on the MBP logic board is not that deep, but how can this be related to the GPU faulty packaging??
All these facts make me think Apple/Nvidia are not that honest about what is going on here, how many MBPs out there are "in danger", and where the problem really is. This firmware/hardware/hot thing is still not clear .. not for me, not for all those the Apple 'geniuses' that indirectly keep this thread alive, not for all the people that keep confusing a "no boot" situation with the current "no screen output" situation, despite raising the volume and listening for the sound it should produce is a test so simple no one using a computer should be unable to do.
Also the famous article with which Apple announced the problem is .. well .. vague. "higher than normal failure rate", "No video on the computer screen (or external display) even though the computer is on" (for most users the computer is on when they press the button, is the led is not working properly and the screen is black, "the computer is on" is a far from clear statement), even which models are affected is not clear .. all those with that chip, only 15 and 17 with those speeds, all those in early 2008. manufactured between those dates (which are far beyond "early 2008") ...
Doesn't Apple know exactly the serial number ranges of possibly affected computers?
Do they avoid to disclose such numbers cause it would sound "more or less all could fail one day or another"?
Has the firmware update been an extrema-ratio trying to fix via software a hardware problem?
Has it failed so badly to actually make things worse? -
Aug 25, 2010 3:44 AM in response to SimoneGianniby gbullman,My experience is that I use my late 2007 MBP (purchased January 2008) for 10-14 hours almost every weekday, somewhat less on the weekends. I've applied almost every update as soon as they are available and had no problems up until a month or so ago. Luckily I always have desktop sharing on, so when the video failed I was able to easily connect to the machine, perform 1 more Time Machine backup and take the machine in for repair (under Apple Care until January 2011, so extended repair not as much of a factor for me).
My understanding is that quite a batch of NVidia chipsets had a mask flaw that increased the chances of failure, and that is apparently what I and many others had. Apple replaced it without any issues and I'm once again a happy MBP user.
I really don't believe there is any conspiracy going on, at least in the US. Some of the posts in this thread about seemingly identical symptoms being dismissed by Apple as not covered are disturbing to me. I've had nothing but good luck with Apple Care repairs, but always have my guard up after reading some of the postings in these forums. -
Aug 25, 2010 11:14 PM in response to Brett Lby JUKE179r,Whooooo-Haaaaaaaaaaaah!!!! I got you all in check!!!!
Found this reading on Apple's Support site since I got the black screen yesterday after installing the most recent security update:
MacBook Pro: Distorted video or no video issues
MacBook Pro: Distorted video or no video issues
Last Modified: June 10, 2010
Article: TS2377
Symptoms
In July 2008, NVIDIA publicly acknowledged a higher than normal failure rate for some of their graphics processors due to a packaging defect. At that same time, NVIDIA assured Apple that Mac computers with these graphics processors were not affected. However, after an Apple-led investigation, Apple has determined that some MacBook Pro computers with the NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor may be affected. If the NVIDIA graphics processor in your MacBook Pro has failed, or fails within four years of the original date of purchase, a repair will be done free of charge, even if your MacBook Pro is out of warranty.
What to look for:
Distorted or scrambled video on the computer screen
No video on the computer screen (or external display) even though the computer is on
Specific products affected:
MacBook Pro 15-inch and 17-inch models with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processors
MacBook Pro (17-Inch, 2.4GHz)
MacBook Pro (15-Inch, 2.4/2.2GHz)
MacBook Pro (Early 2008)
These computers were manufactured between approximately May 2007 and September 2008
Products Affected
MacBook Pro, models with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processors
Resolution
If your MacBook Pro is exhibiting any of the symptoms listed above, please take it to an Apple Retail Store or an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) for evaluation, or call your nearest Apple Contact Center. Before visiting the Genius Bar at the Apple Retail Store, please make a reservation (available in some countries only).
Apple is issuing refunds to customers who may have paid for repairs related to this issue. Please contact Apple for details on the refund process.
Note: If your MacBook Pro is not experiencing any of these symptoms, you do not need to contact Apple.
Apple will continue to evaluate the repair data and will provide further repair extensions as needed.
Bookmark, print and save!!! ;D -
Sep 2, 2010 4:07 AM in response to Brett Lby veronica.liesaputra,I also have the same problem. I have a 15" MacBook Pro laptop that I bought new from an Apple store around July 2007. I was using my laptop for my presentation last week, and during the question and answering session I closed the lid of my laptop for approximately 5 minutes. When I opened it again, it just showed me a black screen. I have tried turning it on/off and followed all troubleshoot suggestion in the user guide but none of them work.
I brought it to the Apple service desk and they said that it is not NVIDIA issue because my laptop does not even pass the hardware checked that the laptop performed when starting up the computer. They asked me to buy a new Logicboard for at least $1200 not including gst and labor!! When I called Apple service center they said that they do not know why my logicboard is suddenly broken. They even argue that the life expectancy of an Apple laptop is only 3 years maximum.
I am trying to figure out how many people got the same issue like me and tell Apple about it so they can seriously investigate this problem, so any laptop does not die suddenly after 2 years. I think if there is many people have the same problem and complaint about it, Apple will feel more obligated to investigate the situation. -
Sep 3, 2010 8:17 AM in response to veronica.liesaputraby jacwuhan,Veronica
I am very sorry that your computer failed. To check if it is the gpu you can try some simple things.for example the keyboard led should work, the volume button can also work so you can increase or decrease the volume, when you put a dvd in the dvd drive you can hear the drive working. I just wanted to tell that if it is the gpu the other part of the computer should work even if the screen stay black. If that is the case you should insist that they check it 2 or 3 more times as I did when my macbook pro gpu failed.
stay blessed -
Sep 4, 2010 12:50 AM in response to Brett Lby sn23027,People need to leave negative feedback about this issue to Apple. Spread the word! Doesn't have to be long, just say you think something should be done about the logic board issues. THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html -
Sep 9, 2010 10:46 AM in response to Brett Lby bobby2156,Was wondering whether or not anyone could offer any advice about this - Recently, for two days, the computer would boot up but the monitor would stay blank, I could change the volume etc, but no screen, basically the issue as stated throughout the thread.
I would intermittently reboot, hoping it would be fixed and by chance on the second day, it worked as normal. It has done it once since then, and again, it worked fine after a number of reboots a day or two later.
I took it into the Apple store today and they ran the diagnostic, stating there was nothing wrong with the graphics card, despite the symptoms being the exact same, and as they couldn't replicate it, they wouldn't be replacing the board.
I'm wondering whether anyone else has been in a similar situation and how it was resolved? I'd prefer not to be inconvenienced again, waiting for the day the monitor doesn't turn on to wait for the repair. -
Sep 9, 2010 4:13 PM in response to bobby2156by moonshot61,Here's a weird one.
I took my MBPro into the Apple store to have them do the nVidia test, as the screen had gone blank right after I'd installed Snow Leopard-rebooted twice, as per normal, but then screen never came back on. But the Apple tech couldn't run the test because they couldn't get the software to read my MBPro serial number. And they said that without being able to identify the serial number, they couldn't do the test.
They figured the problem is that the MBPro is a refurbished one. Seems that it had already had the logic board swapped out, so that the MBPro and the new logic board don't "match". And so the nVidia software can't identify it. Weird.
Anyway, I left it with them and they're going to "reset the eeprom" and, if I understood correctly, give the logic board a "new" serial number. Which will allow them to run the nVidia test.
Should also say that when they went to test my MBPro, naturally the screen came on! Just after I'd finished telling them how it had gone black after installing Snow Leopard and rebooted twice. I could hear everything running, the startup chime, the post-installation Welcome to Snow Leopard bit, the music, etc., with the keyboard lighted, Caps Lock working and so on.
The Apple tech went on to explain that the nVidia chip defect is heat related, that when the MBPro gets really hot, over time the graphics chip gets unsoldered from the logic board.
This coincides with what I've seen, in that my current MBPro, as well as another one that had the problem last year and was fixed free, would sometimes have a working screen I'd left it to cool off for a few hours. But a good example of it getting hot and having the screen go black is doing a system install, which makes it work pretty hard and makes it get really hot. Not surprising then that my screen went black after installing Snow Leopard. And then worked after leaving it for a couple days.
I guess if they say it isn't affected by the nVidia defect and that the logic board won't be replaced for free, I'll have to reinstall Snow Leopard right in front of them and show them that the screen goes black after the computer overheats. Keeping fingers crossed. -
Sep 9, 2010 5:28 PM in response to thorgal73by Edbert,Anyone...ANYONE...who believes in the myth of Apple quality should read this thread...it is a myth...nothing more nothing less.
Apple should replace every MBP affected by this...outright...if they wish to hold onto the illusion that their overpriced products are better then than their lowly-PC competition. -
Sep 10, 2010 1:02 AM in response to Edbertby moonshot61,No, Apple quality IS superior to the vast majority of PC computers, especially with regards to portable computers. They cost a lot more, too, so our standards are also a lot higher. And I've found that over the years Apple has stood behind their products when defects are found, even where outside the standard warranty.
With regards to the Macbook Pros there are probably very different experiences. Some people get the logic board replaced right away, others have to get the MBPro checked a few times, others get denied service. It seems that the diagnostic process is not very consistent.
In my case, I've already had 2 Macbook Pros with the nVidia defect and Apple replaced the logic boards free of charge. I may have a 3rd one with the defect, too - that MBPro is currently at an authorized Apple service provider, and they should let me know next week. But given my (vast) experience with the defective MBPros, it looks like it should get the free logic board repair too: basically, when the MBPro is working hard and gets really hot, at some point - often after a restart, or when you close the lid - the screen goes blank. The Apple tech finally confirmed that the problem with the nVidia chip is heat-related. It's something that most of us probably already knew, or suspected, but it was reassuring to have it confirmed "semi-officially" by an Apple person. -
Sep 12, 2010 12:27 PM in response to Brett Lby NA Smith,Almost a month ago my 13" Pro would go dark, after only 60 seconds, then go to sleep. If I "woke" it, it would stay dark, then go to sleep in 15 seconds. If I forced it off and rebooted, same thing.
I have BootCamp (Vista). Even when the machine was dark/sleeping in Snow Leopard, I could get the display to work fine by starting it in the BootCamp Pre-Boot environment (just before you choose the startup disk).
But.
If I booted to Vista (expecting Windows to work fine) it failed as well. Vista would boot to full brightness, then go dark, then go to sleep, just like OSX.
My 2nd experiment: force it off - boot it to OSX, let it go dark, let it sleep for 15 minutes. Reboot. Worked fine for the rest of the day. Next morning - repeat performance. One quirk is that when it was working well, if I picked it up suddenly, it went dark and then to sleep. Reboot, and it was fine again.
An Apple tech told me that the Nvidia chip issue was due to heat making the chip "float" - thus sudden movement effected the hardware. The tech also said that the sleep mechanism was likely effected by the "floating" chip as well. Apple of course is offering a free repair for the chip.
Here is where my story is unusual - I made an appointment with Apple for the chip test, but got impatient waiting for the day. Meanwhile I decided to save my data (clone via CCC) and nuke the drive. (I do not give my data to ANYone).
So I erased the drive and did a fresh install of Snow Leopard. I held off on the Apple Updates. The machine worked fine for the next few days (still waiting for that appointment). I canceled the appointment for the chip test. I updated the OS. Machine works great 3 weeks later. Go figure.
Cheers - NAS -
Sep 19, 2010 5:49 PM in response to moonshot61by bosonnoit,Hi,
I have been experiencing this problem on my MBP since July.
My problem is that this dark screen of death occurs even after a normal shutdown/boot.
This morning, I started my MBP (GeForce 8600, November 2007), and got blank screen. I tried different things (i'm getting used to it^^), until display came back.
Then, i did not log in, just made it reboot. Black screen again.
I left it on my desk the whole day (the room is heading north, and September is not so hot in Paris). Tonight, I still got the blank screen, so I doubt it is heat-related.
Other funny thing ? The optic drive seems to be down, and I realized it when I tried to boot from the installation disc.
Anyway, I am going to the Apple Store in three days and will let you know what is next. Hopefully my AppleCare Protection Plan ends in November. -
Sep 19, 2010 7:36 PM in response to bosonnoitby Edbert,[quote]
the room is heading north, and September is not so hot in Paris
[/quote]
Now that made me laugh, really.
The problem is that the MBPs, at least the one made for the year in question are flaming pieces of **** that should be replaced by Apple. But the kool-aid drinkers and fruity-apologists insist (despite this thread) that these are aberrations and Apple can do no wrong. Yeah I know and agree it might be an Nvidia issue, but it is not the Nvidia logo glowing on the back of the lid, and there's been a zillion PCs made with the same GPU that don't seem to be having these issues.
