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Update 2.2 breaks all "Sort xxx" fields from iTunes library

Previous AppleTV software versions utilized data in the iTunes "Sort" fields in music lists for Artist, Composer, etc.

Having carefully coded over 9000 items in my iTunes library to use the Sort Artist and Sort Composer fields to bring coherence to my music collection, I am now presented with completely unusable lists for either.

In the "Artist" field, I had everything coded to sort by last name, with all the "one-offs" at the bottom of the list. Before the update, the AppleTV honored that sort order. Now, the Artist list has reverted back to sorting by first name, and every shmoe who sang one song on a soundtrack is now interspersed with the artists I actually want to scroll through...in a list with thousands of names.

In the "Composer" field, I had similarly coded to separate serious classical composers from pop song authors. The AppleTV used to list Composers in my coded sort order. No more!

Having spent days to organize the contents of my iTunes library, I am not amused. The whole point of having the Sort fields is violated here, and as far as I am concerned, the AppleTV is rendered close to useless.

Oh by the way, if you were using the old trick of using leading punctuation to move items to the top of a displayed list, it no longer works with this release either. They had already killed it on iPods, so it was bound to go away sooner or later, but at least iPods follow the "Sort" field codes.

When I placed a call to Apple Tech Support, the rep couldn't get the concept of what the Sort fields did, so he finally put me through to a "Product Specialist"...I had to explain to the Specialist how the Sort fields work in iTunes and how it used to work on AppleTV. At least he got the concept, but there was clearly no consideration for this interface feature in the design of this latest update.

Unbelievably annoying.

MacPro, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Oct 4, 2008 12:58 PM

Reply
11 replies

Oct 4, 2008 1:25 PM in response to Philip Brandes

Welcome to the  Discussion Forums.

In my case I'm not so sure it is because the sort listings are being ignored, but rather that the tv now lists items in the same way as in itunes.

I haven't needed to use the sort field for very many items, but yet the change has affected my whole listings. By way of an example:

I name regular movies with the protocol, '© A Royal Flush' and '© Sleepless In Peckham', whereas home movies I name with the protocol, '♡ Up The Creek' and '♡ A Stick 'n' An 'ole'. Prior to v 2.2 this enabled all home movies to be grouped together and all regular movies to be grouped together, like this:

© A Royal Flush
© Sleepless In Peckham
© War Of The Worlds
♡ Acorns
♡ A Stick 'n' An 'ole
♡ Up The Creek

Now my list looks like this:

♡ Acorns
© A Royal Flush
© Sleepless In Peckham
♡ A Stick 'n' An 'ole
♡ Up The Creek
© War Of The Worlds

However, I'm not so sure this is going to get put back the way it was as it now mirrors the itunes listings which would indeed seem to be the logical approach. So it seems to me the answer is to grin and bear it and get altering your ID tags.

Oct 4, 2008 1:30 PM in response to Winston Churchill

hmmm... maybe i am looking at something else, by my itunes is still sorting movies using the data i entered into the sort fields .

for example i have the 5 harry potter films in itunes, and in the "sort name" field i have "harry 1", "harry 2" etc etc. so that they are listed in itunes in the correct release order.

this still works fine for me.

Oct 4, 2008 1:43 PM in response to Chenks

I tend to agree, which is why I questioned the OP's suggestion that the sort field was now being ignored. In my instance it isn't the sort field that's being ignored but the ©'s, ✖'s and ♡'s etc. It isn't actually the end of the world for me as the lists still make sense even if they aren't quite as intuitive.

Oddly enough and thankfully this trend hasn't been repeated for photos which would have been quite a problem for me and all my ☀'s, ♬'s and ✪'s are still all grouped together, although sadly the tv doesn't seem to display the ✈ symbol properly any longer.

Oct 4, 2008 4:16 PM in response to Philip Brandes

Apparently a couple of things need clarification regarding this problem.

Chenks:
As I said in my previous post, this issue relates specifically to MUSIC lists, which is my primary use for the AppleTV. It sounds as if you understand the difference between the “Name” and “Sort Name” fields, so if the Sort Name field is working properly for you with Movie names, I’m very happy for you. However, SORT ARTIST labeling is not working for the 8800 songs I have in my Music library. And since it used to work properly on the ApppleTV until I installed the latest update last night, I don’t really see how that suggests the problem is local to me and/or my iTunes library.


Winston Churchill:
From your reply it seems as though you might not be aware of the SORT fields I’m referring to, because you seem to be talking about what you have in your regular Artist or Name field or whatever.

I am not talking the actual name of the item in the “Artist” or “Album” or “Composer” fields (or in your case the movie Name field). I am talking about the special “Sort” fields which are hidden by default, you have to enable them in the column heading bar to see them.

When you enter data the “Sort Artist” field, iTunes does in fact use that info when you sort by the regular Artist field (i.e., click Artist column heading)--the list will reposition the Artist list according to the Sort Artist info.

For example, say I want to change the Artist list so that Paul McCartney appears next to the Beatles.

If I type “Beatles” in the SORT ARTIST field of a McCartney song, and then sort the iTunes Music list by the ARTIST field, iTunes will display:

B-52s
Beatles
Paul McCartney
Bjork

So your statement that “the tv now lists items in the same way as in itunes” is simply not correct. iTunes still lists items as I have described, even in version 8.0.1. The tv USED to display the Artist field the same way as it still does iTunes (and iPods for that matter), now it does it IGNORES the Sort field data (at least for Music).

This defeats the whole purpose of the Sort Artist field, which is to allow you to arrange the sort order and group items WITHOUT having to change the artist name. Apple implemented it in iTunes precisely for this, and iTunes and iPods all use it.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with your technique of inserting special character prefixes into your movie names for grouping purposes (although this option has also been taken away in the new AppleTV update). You do realize that all the effort you went to typing in those special characters is now wasted, since the list now sorts as if they weren’t there? If you don’t have many movies, I can see how this might not seem to be the “the end of the world” for you because the lists make some kind of sense. Try imagining a scramble of 8800 items which no longer sort the way they’re coded and perhaps you’ll understand the magnitude of the problem.

The special Sort Fields functionality for Music is now BROKEN in the new AppleTV software.

Anyone who uses this feature should be aware of this.

Oct 4, 2008 5:01 PM in response to Philip Brandes

p.s. - what's particularly galling about this is that Apple has significantly improved the "Sort xxx" capability in the latest version of iTunes. When the Sort fields were first introduced, data could only be entered for one item at a time (I have been using a batch script to assign tags to multiple items). Now, there's a Sorting tab in the Get Info window that lets you assign the Sort fields to all selected items.

Nice of Apple to take the trouble to improve this feature in iTunes and then disable it in the AppleTV.

Oct 4, 2008 5:20 PM in response to Philip Brandes

With respect Philip I know what the 'Sort' Fields do. I've used them before. I'm not sure why you think they are hidden by default, they are clearly available to me under the 4th tab along in the Get Info window (CMD-I).

However after careful examination it would appear that where I use the sort fields there are unusual circumstances. It's a little difficult to explain but basically at one time a couple of my movies used to get listed on the tv in places they shouldn't have been and I used the sort fields to have them listed where they should be (so they matched the alphabetical listing of itunes-this was beyond the 'A', 'An' and 'The' thing), it would seem that the reason these few movies got listed erratically has long been solved and the reason these movies now show where they should is no longer because of the sort info I entered up but because they get listed properly in the first place. (ie, if I remove the info I added in the sort field, they don't change positions)

You may not follow all that but essentially this had given me the impression the sort fields still worked. I'd have to agree with you in this case that sort fields no longer appear to work.

Why I'm not sure, perhaps it was an oversight and perhaps it was intended to try to make long lists work more smoothly and maybe it's an issue with itunes 8.0.1 and not tv 2.2. But because the way the tv lists content seems to gradually being brought more into line with itunes, it may well be that at some point this will get fixed. Sadly for the same reason it is likely that my issue with characters won't see a come back to pre v 2.2 conditions.

Send your tv feedback here

Oct 4, 2008 5:49 PM in response to Winston Churchill

No, it's not an issue with iTunes 8.0.1 because I upgraded my AppleTV before I upgraded iTunes and immediately noticed AppleTV was ignoring the Sort Field info. I then upgraded iTunes to see if this would fix the problem, it did not.

However, as I stated previously, when you add Sort Artist info, iTunes recognizes and follows it even in its own internal lists, and iPods still follow it.

AppleTV 2.2 is broken with respect to music Sort fields.

Oct 4, 2008 6:05 PM in response to Philip Brandes

I only suggested itunes 8.0.1 as one possible reason for the issue, clearly if you noticed this before updating itunes then it isn't the reason. In sooth I was merely trying to suggest that this issue may get solved by a later update because it seems to me it should work, whereas my issue with naming the movies probably wont be resolved because it likely works the way it is supposed to now.

However if sort fields did work, I would have a simple workaround to my issue simply by batch tagging movies of one kind 'A' and of another 'B' etc. in the sort field.

Oct 4, 2008 10:47 PM in response to Winston Churchill

Winston: "However if sort fields did work, I would have a simple workaround to my issue simply by batch tagging movies of one kind 'A' and of another 'B' etc. in the sort field. "

Exactly. That's what I was doing with my music, and it was great while it lasted. BTW, when you're tagging in the Sort field, all you really need for grouping purposes is a simple character string like "aaa" or "zzz" to ensure the group will move to a unique spot, because within that grouping iTunes will sort normally by alphabetic order in the actual name.

All the more reason to hope this gets fixed soon.

Oct 5, 2008 2:20 AM in response to Philip Brandes

Philip Brandes wrote:
Winston: "However if sort fields did work, I would have a simple workaround to my issue simply by batch tagging movies of one kind 'A' and of another 'B' etc. in the sort field. "

Exactly. That's what I was doing with my music, and it was great while it lasted. BTW, when you're tagging in the Sort field, all you really need for grouping purposes is a simple character string like "aaa" or "zzz" to ensure the group will move to a unique spot, because within that grouping iTunes will sort normally by alphabetic order in the actual name.

All the more reason to hope this gets fixed soon.


ok i have just tried it with music and it still works for me, as it does with video.
the sort fields are not hidden, they are visible and always have been in itunes > get info.

Update 2.2 breaks all "Sort xxx" fields from iTunes library

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