Tech question - Target Disk Mode

Firewire target mode is gone on the new MacBooks, however, Migration Assistant over a network is a 24h endeavour (if I take my initial Gbit Ethernet backup to my Time Capsule as a guide). Even over Firewire 800, it can easily take 5+ hours.

Isn't it funny that internal drives get ever faster, particular in the case of SSDs (even 5400 rpm drives are getting faster, not least because larger drives mean increased data density), but the interfaces to external drives get slower (from Firewire 400 to USB speeds).

Maybe it would not be as grinding if USB would not lag behind Firewire even more on Macs than on (Windows)PCs. Abandoning one technology because it is superseded by a newer better one is perfectly fine (VGA, DVI) as would USB3 be. But simply dropping it smacks of greed.

I think you're right, but perhaps more than greed, it is marketing -- there seems to be a lot less to differentiate the MacBook from the MacBook Pro with the latest models, with the exception of the presence of a Firewire port.

Consumers use FireWire, too. Please. And, if Apple chooses not to include FireWire, why not include an Express Card slot like other consumer notebooks have? This way, I could plug in an adapter to allow for FireWire ports or more USB ports (which are important to consumers even in Apple's eyes).

It's balderdash if you ask me and all about the bottom line!

It probably was governed by marketing as a differentiating measure + they wanted to phase out Firewire 400 (if you need speed get Firewire 800 now, and Firewire 3200 and USB3 later). But in a sense, the intent to steer the more demanding customers towards the MBP is also because the margins on it are higher.

Excluding the Firewire 400 port simply because of the cost of associated circuitry would be really stupid. Engineering the placements of ports might be a slightly better excuse. But in the end it was mostly mainly about about product classification.

Edit:
USB3 will kill Firewire 400 (for applications that need speed). Firewire 3200 probably will kill Firewire 800, Firewire 800 did not kill Firewire 400 because Firewire 400 was too entrenched (and because 5400 rpm drives don't need it).

Message was edited by: Sekoya

What it's going to end up being about is Apple losing sales, 'cause some of us _must have_ FireWire and can't afford MacBook Pros.

Think about 100Mbit/s Ethernet, gives you 10MB/s of transfer speed at the very best, not everybody has GBit Ethernet which would still be slower, and probably your old Mac doesn't have GBit as well…

That's if you're going through a network. Even the G4 iBooks had Gigabit Ethernet. If you simply connect two Macs with Gigabit Ethernet directly to each other with a single Ethernet cable, they should negotiate 1000Base-T speeds. No one's really going to get 1000 speed, but it certainly could be faster than the 400 of FireWire...

-Doug

this may sound a silly question but now the aluminum macbook has no firewire what exactly do you do to transfer between my macbook pro and new macbook? is it simly connecting both laptops with an ethernet cable? why im confused is that i always thought an ethernet was to connect to a hub for an internet wireless connection. if you use it instead of using a firewire cable im assuming your not using the internet connection at all just using the ethernet cable like you would with a firewire cable. i know how to use migration assistant just want to understand exactly what an ethernet cable transfer is?

sorry if im coming over dumb...i suppose i am!

thanks rob

Hi Monty100,

You can see this doc:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1433

look at network #2, and note that a cross over ethernet cable is not needed for most recent (last 5 years +, I think).

--Paul

I believe the original a concern was regarding being able to transfer all your data and settings to a new laptop via Target Disk Mode. However, TDM is not the only way to do this. In fact, when turning on a new laptop for the first time and getting it set-up, it ask how you would like to import your data. One option is to import your settings from a Time Machine back-up. This is just as effective as using Migration Assistant and even more thorough then using TDM.

Having that said, don't let the presence of a single port be a deal breaker for you when buying a laptop. There is always more then one way to accomplish the same task.

Hope that helps.

William Rivas wrote:

Stuartea71 wrote:
Will the new MacBooks have some form of Target Disk Mode? I just want to be sure when deciding on which model to buy.

Is it available via USB/Ethernet?

Anyone with a definitive answer (not speculation). I'm guessing I'll have to wait until someone reviews a model, but thought I'd ask.

Man what BIG MISTAKE not putting Fire wire on this beautiful laptop!

Man someone was on drugs or forgot to take some.

Seasoned Mac users will walk away from this one...

I'm a seasoned Mac user having owned 12 since 1994.
I will not miss the Firewire port at all, I have no use for it.
I have a HD camera that uses USB, along with all my other USB devices.
If you don't want one of the new MacBook then don't but one, but you all need to stop moaning about it.

I just spoke with Apple about their "nutty" decision to remove Firewire and the Target Disk function. The Tech Rep logged my complaint and assigned me a Case number. He also informed me that the only way that this can be resolved is for EACH and EVERY person affected, to call Apple and lodge a complaint. If enough people complain about it, or MacBook sales plummet, THEY WILL fix the problem by, re-adding the firewire to their next design revision.

I will not be holding my breath on this one, because I am pretty sure that there are currently a million or more units in stores, on their way to stores and still coming off the production line.

All I can say is to have everyone call Apple and let them know how you feel (800-275-2273).

-dp

Most people who will buy these won't care one bit.
I bet if you ask most people they don't even know what Firewire is.

The school district that I work for, has hundreds of MacBooks and we purchase 50 to 100 a year. The only way we are able to install and upgrade all the software, is to re-image the laptops by booting in Target Mode, then connect via Firewire and image the machine using NetRestore.

This process takes 15 to 20 minutes. Any other method that I know of, takes hours. Multiply that times 200 computers, times how many thousands of school districts that do this and you can see where this can become a nightmare for IT departments.

It potentially affects millions of users.

Perhaps, but I care about the absence of Firewire, just not enough to stop me from buying one. I've found it to be faster and more reliable than USB2. I'll just have to live without it using the alternative ways of file transfers. Target disk mode has been incredibly useful of the years to quickly and simply transfer large (or large number of) files. And for those of us with firewire-base video cameras a MacBook is a no-go; I do my video editing using a desktop Mac, which is why I didn't have to get a MacBook Pro.

NetRestore does NOT use FireWire Target Disk Mode.

-Doug