Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

Question:

Question: Gmail Push Email?

Why doesn't the iPhone support push email with gmail.. Every other phone supports push with gmail, so the moment a message is recieved in gmail it instantly gets pushed to the phone.. It is obviously not on Google's end, so why doesn't the iPhone support this and will they ever?

Posted on

Reply
Question marked as Solved
Answer:
Answer:
D'Mak wrote:
The settings in google are universal.. The same gmail account will push email instantly on almost any other phone except the iPhone, I didn't change any settings in google.. It's definitely not an issue with google.



Your first sentence is correct. The settings for google are universal. And nowhere in the gmail settings is push even mentioned.

Android does not support push either. In fact it doesn't even support Outlook.

Quote:On the downside, it falls short is in its ability to handle Microsoft Exchange e-mail, the most common platform for mobile communications used by businesses and corporations. Unless the user is hooking up to Google’s own Gmail, the G1 also does not deliver push, or instant reception, e-mail.
Source: http://www.freep.com/article/20081015/BLOG01/81015134

What Android does is poll gmail in the background on a settable interval, just like Iphone Fetch. But instead of downloading it it simply lists your mail. That's not Push.

Posted on

Page content loaded

Oct 19, 2008 12:14 PM in response to D'Mak In response to D'Mak

Name almost any other phone that has an email client (almost any other phone does not have an email client) that supports Push access with a Gmail account.

If you say a Blackberry, this is true, but RIMM provides a dedicated email delivery service for Blackberry customers which provides Push access. This doesn't mean the email account provider for an email account that is accessed with a Blackberry supports Push access.

Oct 19, 2008 12:14 PM

Reply Helpful

Oct 19, 2008 4:10 PM in response to D'Mak In response to D'Mak

You said almost any other phone.

The Android G1 is a Google phone, and Google is the Gmail account provider.

This doesn't mean you can access a Gmail account as a Push email account with almost any other phone except for a Blackberry, with RIMM providing a dedicated email delivery service with Push access for all accounts.

Apple provides a MobileMe account, which can be accessed via Push on an iPhone, which runs an optimized version of OS X that is provided by Apple.

Makes sense that Google would provide Push access for a Gmail account on the Android G1 which runs an operating system provided by Google.

Oct 19, 2008 4:10 PM

Reply Helpful

Oct 19, 2008 4:17 PM in response to D'Mak In response to D'Mak

D'Mak wrote:
how about the Android G1? Fully supports gmail push email

Not surprising since Android and gmail are Google products. The G1 has a separate, dedicated mail client for Gmail. So, besides BB and Android G1, what are the "almost any other phone(s)" you referred to?

Oct 19, 2008 4:17 PM

Reply Helpful
Question marked as Solved

Oct 19, 2008 5:36 PM in response to D'Mak In response to D'Mak

D'Mak wrote:
The settings in google are universal.. The same gmail account will push email instantly on almost any other phone except the iPhone, I didn't change any settings in google.. It's definitely not an issue with google.



Your first sentence is correct. The settings for google are universal. And nowhere in the gmail settings is push even mentioned.

Android does not support push either. In fact it doesn't even support Outlook.

Quote:On the downside, it falls short is in its ability to handle Microsoft Exchange e-mail, the most common platform for mobile communications used by businesses and corporations. Unless the user is hooking up to Google’s own Gmail, the G1 also does not deliver push, or instant reception, e-mail.
Source: http://www.freep.com/article/20081015/BLOG01/81015134

What Android does is poll gmail in the background on a settable interval, just like Iphone Fetch. But instead of downloading it it simply lists your mail. That's not Push.

Oct 19, 2008 5:36 PM

Reply Helpful

Dec 18, 2008 6:02 AM in response to icebike In response to icebike

Hi all,

I am a developer. Push Email is merely IMAP with a idle server extension. GMail does contain this idle extension. I have already written an application that does performance push email NOT polling.

I dont have G1 phone so cant tell you if Android supports push, however I would be shocked if it didnt support push since push email is very easy to program.

The iPhone can only perform push on exchange, me, yahoo and no others. This is specially a design decision from Apple. How else can they justify charging $$$ for me.com if nearly all email servers which have IMAP support push. (Most IMAP servers would have this idle server extension installed as it reduces load on the servers)

If you want gmail to support push email, google will need to pay apple the privillege of remove that resistrction in the iPhone OS. Note both yahoo, gmail are both imap servers with idle server extention, they are no different from eachother.

Hope this clears things up.

Dec 18, 2008 6:02 AM

Reply Helpful

Dec 18, 2008 2:31 PM in response to Mohammed Imran In response to Mohammed Imran

http://www.nuevasync.com/ - a workaround for google push.

But on another note, just because idled is available on some (but very far from all) Imap servers does not mean that its a "Good Thing" (tm) or that it scales well. It does not really reduce load as much as you claim because it substitutes short queries for long running tcp connections that have to be maintained, periodically reestablished, tracked, and looked up for each mail arrival. The lookup in 65k entry table can take way more cpu time than handling a query.

This is fine for a small to mid-size corporate server (about the size of a college campus), but is simply not practical for an origination the size of Gmail, where every poll your client makes might go to a different server, and static long-lasting connections are not conducive to load balancing or scaling.

Idled was never meant for disappearing and reappearing devices. It was meant for "always on" desktop machines. It requires the device to maintain an always open tcp connection to the server, (sort of like Microsoft Active Sync which the iphone uses). Iphones wander around, shifting from Edge to wifi to 3G throughout the day. The IP they get can change minute by minute.

Everyone who has never actually studied idled thinks its the answer for Push (it isn't technically even push), but its not.

Apple chose Microsoft Active Sync because that is what Exchange supports, and Exchange is one of the biggest mail handlers out there.

The blackberry network has a true signaling layer on top of the cellular network which does not require always up tcp connections.
Rim would not be eager to license their technology to Apple at anywhere near the dirt cheap price of active sync, nor would Apple be eager to pay for it.

Its not Apple that has the restrictions, its Google. They do not support push, and until there is a common signaling methodology in place they probably never will. They are just too big.

There are a wealth of patents protecting signaling over GSM that get in the way of introducing something new (besides the tcp and Rim approaches).

Until the GSM standard gets enhanced with a non-telephony related signaling layer don't expect anything new.

Dec 18, 2008 2:31 PM

Reply Helpful

Dec 18, 2008 5:07 PM in response to icebike In response to icebike

I tried nuevasync by the way icebike and it's not up to it's standards yet. I found it a bit annoying. Just an FYI, nuevasync locks my iPhone for nearly 15 seconds while retrieving data.

PS to side note this: MobileMe has push problems as well despite the push feature for updating your data from ME.COM. I had to update it by going to my e-mail app and going to the e-mail home screen with all the e-mail accounts and push the refresh. After that the calendar, contacts, and bookmarks updated to the latest information between each other.

I have to do this for MobileMe, GMail, Yahoo, etc. Go to the e-mail home screen and push the refresh button to get all my e-mails. I would forward Yahoo to MobileMe, but I'm not looking forward to pay their service that can be free on iPhone.

And YES, the Push feature was set to "Push" and not every few minutes or manually.

Dec 18, 2008 5:07 PM

Reply Helpful

Dec 18, 2008 6:47 PM in response to JoeZinVA In response to JoeZinVA

I don't use Nuevasync for mail, just for calendar.

And since that does not get updated that often I just use Fetch with Neuvasync, which works well.

So I haven't seen any of the problems you mention, but I don't doubt it has a few problems. Its still beta. I used to use it for mail sync but decided I didn't need the battery drain.

I've found fetch works well enough for my mail needs using Gmail and secure Imap (to our own company server).

I'm not aware of the exact mechanism that MobileMe uses for push, but I suspect its the same old open a tcp connection, leave it open till it times out or mail arrives, - rinse, repeat. All guaranteed to keep the radio on. Same as Active Sync.

Is the mobile me mechanism actually explained anywhere?

Dec 18, 2008 6:47 PM

Reply Helpful

Dec 22, 2008 11:55 AM in response to Mohammed Imran In response to Mohammed Imran

Interesting comment you made below Mohammed... When speaking with APPLE app's support person, I was simply informed Verizon FiOS doesn't support PUSH and it had nothing to do with APPLE... I was thinking that Verizon didn't have IMAP?

"The iPhone can only perform push on exchange, me, yahoo and no others. This is specially a design decision from Apple. How else can they justify charging $$$ for me.com if nearly all email servers which have IMAP support push. (Most IMAP servers would have this idle server extension installed as it reduces load on the servers)"...

Dec 22, 2008 11:55 AM

Reply Helpful

Dec 22, 2008 12:13 PM in response to Radical Hacker In response to Radical Hacker

Radical Hacker wrote:
i have gmail working on my iphone without any problems

So does everyone else who uses gmail. Like everyone else, yours doesn't operate in push mode since gmail doesn't support true push mail.

Dec 22, 2008 12:13 PM

Reply Helpful

Jan 2, 2009 8:25 AM in response to icebike In response to icebike

Regarding 'This is fine for a small to mid-size corporate server (about the size of a college campus), but is simply not practical for an origination the size of Gmail, where every poll your client makes might go to a different server, and static long-lasting connections are not conducive to load balancing or scaling.'

If you ever go to www.gmail.com, and someone sends you an email, it automatically appears. This is not because of polling, its because it keeps a idle http connection simular to comet. So saying that is not scalable is not true, as gmail website is going it already doing it. Scability depends on how the idle connections are handled. Its much more expensive if you have a user keeps polling the server every minute, why as you first have to do SSL hand-shacking, then user authentication, then look up the user, and its email messages. Whereas as with idle, all thats already done, therefore you already saved CPU and bandwidth. If you use continuations, not a thread per a connection, reduces overhead.

Also Yahoo uses IMAP, not active sync, so what is the difference between Yahoo and Gmail?

Jan 2, 2009 8:25 AM

Reply Helpful
User profile for user: D'Mak

Question: Gmail Push Email?