Old PCI graphics card on G5

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Level 1

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Old PCI graphics card on G5

Hello,

I just found an old ATI Rage 128 graphics card that
came in my old G4 (350MHz PCI Graphics) and was wondering
if I could use it to run a 3rd monitor on my dual G5
1.8GHz Next to its GeForce FX 5200 AGP.
Or are the PCI busses different in some way between the
old G4 (ok very old in this case...) and the 2nd generation G5.
I also read somewere on this forum that when you add a PCI
graphics card, that Final Cut does not work. Does that mean
it just won't open until you've physically removed the card
or does it mean that it just doesn't output anything
through that card ?

Thanks

Powermac G5 Dual 1.8GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Oct 25, 2008 4:00 AM

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Answer 1

Samsara

Level 4

1,327 points

Oct 25, 2008 1:43 PM in response to del_pepite

Hi del-pepite,

Yes, that card should work on your mac for another monitor. Ati Rage software I don't know.
For my Dual 2.7, adding a PCI card disabled iMovie 6 and 7, and Final Cut Express. That was my experience, usually there is a warning that comes up saying one or more of your video cards doesn't support Quartz Express.

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Answer 2

del_pepite Author

Level 1

0 points

Oct 26, 2008 2:20 AM in response to Samsara

Hi

I was just checking through the developer site and
it said that the G5 has 33MHz 64-Bit PCI 2.3 (3.3V only)
and that the old G4 the card came from was a
66MHz 64-Bit PCI 2.1 (3.3V and 5V) for the graphics card.
Does this mean that I might toast my G5 if i put it
in ?

Thanks

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Answer 3

The hatter

Level 9

61,031 points

Oct 26, 2008 3:01 AM in response to del_pepite

Your G4, like the G3 'Smurf, had a 66MHz PCI slot and was independent of the other 33MHz slots.

And I also read that putting even the newest ATI Radeon 9200 PCI in a G5 would cripple PCI bandwidth on the full system and you wanted to avoid if possible.

The G5 1.6 and I think some early 1.8s had PCI, while the 2.0 and later models had PCI-X (two 100MHz and one 133MHz PCI slots).

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Answer 4

del_pepite Author

Level 1

0 points

Oct 26, 2008 5:57 AM in response to The hatter

I know that my G5 is the type that has PCI slots only since I got to
update my MOTU PCI-324 audio card when i upgraded my G4 to my G5
and at that point MOTU had update to either G5 compatible PCI or
PCI-X.
But is this ATI rage 128 card compatible with the PCI bus on my G5
or not. All this business with 33/66MHz and 3.3V/5V.

Thank you

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Answer 5

japamac

Level 7

24,400 points

Oct 26, 2008 6:20 AM in response to del_pepite

Hi-

The mhz of the card won't hurt things, beyond that which The hatter indicated. PCI bus speeds are backwards compatible to slower speeds. If the card is faster than the PCI bus, then the card won't work right/well.
The voltage supplied by your slot is 3.3v, and the card uses 3.3v and 5v. Not sure if the card will work without 5v, but it isn't something that should fry anything.

Personally, as old and slow as the Rage is, I wouldn't put one in any of my machines...... especially knowing that it will inhibit use of software that needs Quartz Extreme.......

There were issues with multiple cards in G4's.
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA26037?viewlocale=en_US
Can't really say what it'll do in a G5.

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Answer 6

del_pepite Author

Level 1

0 points

Oct 26, 2008 1:55 PM in response to japamac

Hi,

Thank you everyone. Just one last question. What is quartz extreme and what do I need it for ? Why won't quartz extreme work ? The card is an apple original
card from a G4 so it has all the open firmware type stuff. Do old G4's not have quartz extreme ? Can't my primary GeForce FX 5200 card run quartz extreme ?
Do both card need to run quartz extreme ? What sort of card can I add to run
3 monitors in my PCI (not PCI-X or PCIe) based G5 and still have quartz extreme if I need that.

Thank you

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Answer 7

Samsara

Level 4

1,327 points

Oct 26, 2008 2:24 PM in response to del_pepite

Hi again del-pepite,

I thought this was a good summation of what QE is: http://kb.iu.edu/data/ajeb.html

Your AGP card is QE compatible. Your PCI card is not. No PCI card is, as far as I know.

I went through this topic once before myself. It's easy to add a PCI card to your Mac but it seems *any PCI card* will disable or interfere with using Quartz Extreme. So that's a lot of modern Apple software.
I tried to get this solved talking to Apple. But they were completely unconcerned. They just said they didn't take into consideration older models when creating new software. At least in this case.

Actually I was pretty angry as I had just a month or so prior bought the PCI card that The Hatter mentions above. Still on the market and advertised. However neither Apple nor ATI is really making public the fact that using PCI cards disable some software when installed in Macs. If one has a PCI card and has just bought iLife 08, they will find that iMovie 7 doesn't work, at all. That's one of the four apps in iLife 08. Or a quarter of the price.

I don't know how you would manage a 3rd monitor without the card interfering with QE apps. Or what you could use in lieu of a PCI card. Only way I can think of is to have an s-video output on your AGP card. That could go to a tv but another monitor, I don't know.
Write here to try to make a difference, I think the ball is in Apples court: http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

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