Screen turns black when gaming?

Hi guys, I bought a MacBook Pro 15" three days after they were released.. everything was going just fine until yesterday, when I was playing Call Of Duty 4, and suddenly my screen went black. I closed/opened the lid and still it was black, everything else was running just fine cause I could hear the game running through my speakers.. but the screen wouldnt turn back on no matter what. I had to use the power button to shut it down and get the screen back.

this happened like 4 times yesterday (all of them while gaming)

should I take it back to the store?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks.

MacBook Pro 15", Mac OS X (10.5.5), 2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB 1067 MHz DDR3, Nvidia GeForce 9600GT 512MB

Posted on Oct 26, 2008 11:25 AM

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525 replies

Dec 9, 2008 12:07 AM in response to JVTM

I've been posting in this thread since the beginning because I got my MBP when they were released, gone through a replacement with the same problem and living in Spain they give us no information and there is no official apple store where I live (2nd biggest city in the country!).

I had ordered another MBP for my partner but obviously I have cancelled it until some official word comes from Apple in a way of firmware fix or hardware replacement.

Being a loyal customer of the brand since 1995 I've seen things go good and bad but doing as if there is no such problem is not a good thing. This is not a 400 euro machine, this costs 2.5k euro which is a lot of money (the average salary in Spain is 1k/month...)

Dec 9, 2008 5:42 AM in response to sjds

My old post:
I know, if apple releases a firmware update which will basically just increase >the fan speed - something is wrong! Mind my words...


As i said so - i don't know about you guys but i will exchange my mbp until i get a good chip. (NVIDIA mixed bad and good chips to get rid of its buggy chips - for more information read the links posted above)

ToM

Dec 9, 2008 6:00 AM in response to Kevenly

I've had a few hours to test this replacement and so far there have been no BSoD occurrences. With the previous machine I couldn't make it five minutes in any game. This machine is much quieter overall. The fans seem to be controlled more evenly, it doesn't seem to get very hot. I'm only a few hours into a new machine though so that's not a decent amount of testing time.

I saved the system info from the previous machine so I'd be able to compare it with the new.

+(If I didn't list it there was no difference)+

-----
*My first MBP:*

Hardware Overview:
Boot ROM Version: MBP51.0074.B00
SMC Version: 1.33f6

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M:
ROM Revision: 3327

NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT:
ROM Revision: 3327
-----
*Replacement MBP:*

Hardware Overview:
Boot ROM Version: MBP51.0074.B01
SMC Version: 1.33f8

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M:
ROM Revision: 3343

NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT:
ROM Revision: 3343
-----

So there are some differences in interesting places.

Other changes with this new machine include a Seagate Momentus (ST9320421ASG) instead of a Hitachi (HTS723232L9SA62).
The computer did not require most of the updates of the previous machine, especially noting the two firmware updates (EFI and the one that came out the day they were released). A few other application updates were not required as well, including the trackpad update. The speaker crud is still there and in the same formation but is nearly impossible to see whereas before it was highly visible in most any lighting and from any angle. The only flaw I notice so far is the ExpressCard flap is flush with the case on one end but goes inward on the other end.. It was not installed straight. Yes, that's pretty minor. I know these additional things have not to do with the BSoD but thought you all might be curious, and it does show that changes continue to be made to this model.

Dec 9, 2008 8:19 AM in response to DesrAw

I just got off the phone with Apple Support Sweden, who said they would get back to me last week but didn't.

I'm running a hardware test from the apps install CD (reboot, hold D) right now to see if there's any errors in hardware - which there won't be of course.

They then adviced me to wait for 10.5.6 before taking it to service, the update would address stuff in Boot Camp etc.

I'm not too confident in that update though, since they said they didn't know about this specific problem here in Sweden, at least not the guy I talked to.

So - basically nothing new from the swedish corner of the world.

I'm confident this will be fixed one way or another though, be it recalls or not.

It's really important to phone Apple Support with this problem if you haven't already, the more they get informed the better.

I wouldn't put too much weight on all the different things (nvidia bumps and whatnot) we can read in articles and blogs, since it isn't official. Treat it as rumors and nothing else. Some of them might be true, but until then...

Dec 9, 2008 10:26 AM in response to sjds

First of all - to all the previous posts - I totally agree that it is important to keep this thread alive and to continue to actively ask Apple / AppleCare what they intend to do about the problem.

I have been following this topic since almost 2 weeks now. At several points in time I also stumbled across the articles of the "INQUIRER". [...]

Please let me point out that I do not want to judge any source here. Also I am totally supporting journalists who try to come up with detailed analysis about the flaws in Apple's or Nvidia's products.

But I cannot help it. Something feels strange about the articles of the INQUIRER (personal opinion). On their website one can just find 'tons' of material which heavily criticizes Nvidia's products (again I am not a fan of Nvidia's products either I just want them to perform as sold - of course).
Personal Opinion: Some of those articles feel poorly researched and lack a consistent wording. Sometimes wording seems entirely inappropriate for journalism (Quote: "Small batch my ar||!") Sometimes the editors reference products by technical names and sometimes via the marketed names. Sometimes they seem to indicate all chips (even chips with the changed material) are bad altogether:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/28/nvidia-55nm-parts-bad

Sometimes the main argument seems to be that Nvidia mixes good chips with bad chips:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/12/09/apple-macbook-pros-nvidia -bad

Just as a personal opinion: When I read the articles I believe that this is not an entirely perfect source. Most likely (personal opinion) there is some truth to the analysis' of the INQUIRER. But I also believe that the source is not entirely accurate nor entirely appropriate in order to push Apple more towards recognizing that there is a serious problem affecting thousands of MacBook Pros.

I will keep calling Apple and (I am not sure if I can really get through but I will try) NVidia in order to at least raise the questions:

- Are NVidia's Chips (9400M and/or 9600M GT) affected by a serial flaw similar to one related to the 'silent' recall we have seen for early 2008 MBPs? (be it base material issues or tiny solder material issues)

- Does the problem affect some chips (a particular batch of chips? A set of 'older chips'?) or potentially all chips?

- Is there a flaw in the thermal design? How long can a GPU survive temperatures of 80 degrees Celsius?

- Could it be a combination of very edgy thermal design and failing material in the graphics chip?

And personally I wonder what can we do if some techniques help for now (higher fan-speed) but in 12 month when exposed to a lot of stress and lots of hours of high temperature the 9600M GT breaks apart entirely?
As many people said it before: I just want the laptop I selected. The laptop that was supposed to work reliably for years!

Dec 9, 2008 12:04 PM in response to tom_1st

in response to tom1st:

i have tried the fur benchmark above in "gpu burning mode". core gpu temp has settled into a stable 76 deg celsius after a few minutes with fans ramping up by themselves to max. have been running it for over an hour without any crash so far.

Will leave it running for a few more hours. If there is still no crash then i guess it may simply be a driver issue... ?

anyone else tried it yet ?

Dec 9, 2008 12:17 PM in response to midnight.mangler

Same here, tested "gpu burning mode" and no BSoD. I only get some BSoD while playing Oblivion in WXP. I've tested other games in Leopard (Quake 4, Doom 3...) with no problems (playing around an hour each of them).

May be there are several levels of damaged Nvidia chips, or there are 2 problems (bad chips and driver/firmware issues) around the same bug...

Dec 9, 2008 12:37 PM in response to arcandoz

Personal Opinion: Some of those articles feel poorly researched and lack a >consistent wording. Sometimes wording seems entirely inappropriate for >journalism (Quote: "Small batch my ar||!") Sometimes the editors reference >products by technical names and sometimes via the marketed names. Sometimes >they seem to indicate all chips (even chips with the changed material) are bad >altogether:


I follow the inquirer since it was founded in 2001 and also before the founder was still working at theRegister. What you have to know about the inquirer is that they write with their british humor and often use sarcasm and other stylistic elements. For me its one of the best site for IT related news and rumors - others don't like their "style" of reporting things and often hate it. But i have laughed so often about their jokes and hidden hints and i appreciate their different perspective on things. If you want dead serious articles and prefer common-views and conformity theinquirer is not the place for you.
Let me make some examples:
Itanic - A combination of Itanium (64 Bit CPU from Intel) and Titanic. (this hits the nail on the head 🙂
Daamit - When AMD bought ATI: AMD+ATI=DAAMIT - :-D

Here's a guide to the terminology used:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=8069

*So besides their style (wording, jokes, slang, kind of writing etc) what about the content?*

In my experience of the past 7 years theInquirer was about 90% right. (I could mention so many things they predicted/wrote which turned out to be true (for instance they were the first to write about the Sony, Dell, Apple Laptop Battery Scandal - subsequently to that a worldwide recall was initiated. Many renowned publications, such as The New York Times, reprinted The Inquirer's photographs).

Of course there were other things they weren't right about - but people forget that the article was often clearly "marked" as a rumor. If the article starts with a statement like "We've heard an odd, but strong whisper on the grapevine . . ." These articles lack official confirmation and it can be considered as rumor or speculation. But even many of those turn out to be true afterwards.

Of course someone should never turn of his common sense while reading any news source and take everything with a grain of salt.

So especially in their latest article what do you find odd?
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/12/09/apple-macbook-pros-nvidia -bad

They dissected a mbp and proved that against the claims of nvidia a buggy graphic chip has been used - and that highly plausible to me (Quote: "buy a Macbook off the shelf, disassemble it, desolder the chips, saw them in half, encase them in lucite, and run them through a scanning electron microscope equipped with an X-ray microanalysis system")

Are NVidia's Chips (9400M and/or 9600M GT) affected by a serial flaw similar >to one related to the 'silent' recall we have seen for early 2008 MBPs? (be it >base material issues or tiny solder material issues)

As the article states - the 9400M is not effected but the 9600M is

Does the problem affect some chips (a particular batch of chips? A set of >'older chips'?) or potentially all chips?

As the older articles state nvidia intermixed old (buggy) chips and new not affected ones. Thus you can't differentiate.

Is there a flaw in the thermal design?

Partly - its a flaw in the packaging material - which basically means its thermal design is flawed (but the (chip)die itself is not affected)
How long can a GPU survive temperatures of 80 degrees Celsius?

Difficult to say but to quote one of the articles again: " with field reports on specific parts hitting up to 40 per cent early life failures"
But again it is difficult to say your chip will last 39,0422 month or something like that.

Could it be a combination of very edgy thermal design and failing material in >the graphics chip?

Since i don't want to quote the articles over and over again 😉 its said there.

And personally I wonder what can we do if some techniques help for now (higher >fan-speed) but in 12 month when exposed to a lot of stress and lots of hours >of high temperature the 9600M GT breaks apart entirely?

Yeah that will happen especially if apple does not make a recall but only increases the fan-speed and/or underclocks the GPU.
I think what one can do is to get a carepack which extends the warranty to 3 years - but for this additional cost we as users have to bleed 😟

Regards,
ToM

Dec 9, 2008 12:37 PM in response to Iof

there are three games that cause a black screen for me:
C&c3, half life episode 2 and oblivion.

the following games do not (or have not, so far):
red alert 3 demo, world in conflict, bioshock, silent hunter iv, supcom, company of heroes, armed assault...

it is possible in some cases there may be a driver issue in some games which obscures the issue as it produces the same symptom (black screen + looping audio). i do believe there is a real issue, as some people seem unable to play any game for any length of time. but in the fur benchmark my temps peak and then flatten out over time at around 76 and i haven't had a crash so far. usually, with the three games above, the crash occurs in 5 - 10 minutes max... alternatively, it could be there is a continuum of affected 9600 chips, some with the defect more pronounced than others... does anyone with a clear crashing problem have an issue with the fur stability test ?

Dec 9, 2008 12:50 PM in response to kallepau

I have the new MacBook Pro 2.53Ghz. I am extremely frustrated by the lack of quality control from Apple. I have been a Mac user since the Mac Plus days and this is extremely frustrating. To make the long story short, this is my 3rd Unibody MacBook Pro. The first was order right after the product announcement and the machine ran fine. (No BSOD) I had to return the machine because the fan was defective. It started making this machine gun noise. The second had a defective optical drive, but no BSOD. Now, the third machine has a quiet fan and a working optical drive, but this one has the BSOD syndrome. I am still not sure if this is caused by a thermal issue. I ran C&C3 and I got the BSOD in less than a minute and half into the game. This occurred from a cold start.

Can anymore else confirm this? Do you guys get the BSOD on a cold machine within a few minutes after the launch of a game?

Dec 9, 2008 2:22 PM in response to JVTM

My question now is:

IF THE PROBLEM IS AN HARDWARE PROBLEM, A FIRMWARE UPDATE IS ONLY A WAY TO HIDE THIS PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!

IF IS CONFIRMED THAT IS AN HARDWARE BUG I WANT MY MACBOOK PRO REPLAEACED ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!

HOW MANY TIME WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR AN OFFICIAL APPLE REPLY????????

IS APPLE EATING MY 2500 EUROS TO THE RESTAURANT???

PS. Sorry for my english 😀

Message was edited by: Dreamarco

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