MacBook Pro (Late 2008) Wireless Issues

Hello, guys.

I'm having exactly this this same problem. Airport fails to connect repeatedly but if and only if I connect an external USB hard drive. I've had this Lacie drive for a long time and this is the first time I experience such a problem in the Macintosh.

It's certain, connect the drive, loose the net, disconnect the drive wireless returns.

Thank you for your contribution. You are actually not the first who relates the problem to attaching or detaching some peripheral. If I had not spent so much time studying the problem without success ( http://www.giacec.co.uk/mbp) I would think it is absurd... but I have to believe you.

The only idea that comes to mind from what happens to you is that, possibly because of bad shielding of the motherboard, attaching an USB peripheral changes the WIFI antenna "properties" (or the MBP's aluminum body's) in a way that makes reception bad. If anyone who reads this knows about electronics, can she/he confirm that what I said is technically possible?

It would be interesting to see if the same happens with other USB peripherals.

G.

William,
I am sure that the Apple guys test their products properly. I am also sure that hundreds of people in this forum cannot be wrong.

Clearly the bug we are all impacted by in this as in many other threads of this forum is subtle, and in most of cases cannot be replicated at the Apple Store or in their labs, but this does not make it less real.

I believe that Apple is negligent in not taking advantage of the forum's contributors to tackle the issue once and for all. They read our posts if our language is not clean enough and to censor us, but apparently they do not pass on to their techies the information we produce and our names, to contact us and find out more.

The Apple techies could just come and visit me at my home to see the bug with their own eyes. They could swap the Airport card with a new one and see that nothing changes. They could stop iStumbler and see that the network dies, and start iStumbler and see that the network comes back. All of this is not normal. All of this is not my imagination. Tea and biscuits are always ready for them when they want to come. In the meantime they can read http://www.giacec.co.uk/mbp .

G.

Giacecco wrote:
I am sure that the Apple guys test their products properly. I am also sure that hundreds of people in this forum cannot be wrong.

I never said people were wrong, but there also (at least currently) aren't "hundreds" of reports of this issue.

That's not to discount in any way how annoying it is for those experiencing it; trust me, I know what it's like.

I believe that Apple is negligent in not taking advantage of the forum's contributors to tackle the issue once and for all. They read our posts if our language is not clean enough and to censor us, but apparently they do not pass on to their techies the information we produce and our names, to contact us and find out more.

That's just it; these are user-to-user forums.

The mods are here to monitor posts for compliance with the Terms of Use, not to pass information on to support.

There is a communications channel to engineering in place, and that's called AppleCare. This is not the place to come to beg Apple to fix a problem, it's a place to see if other users have a fix for your issue.

To get Apple to fix a problem, visit the Genius Bar at your local Apple Store and/or open a trouble report with AppleCare.

When you open a ticket with AppleCare, they will have your name, contact information and machine details so that engineers can contact you for more information if it is needed.

The Apple techies could just come and visit me at my home to see the bug with their own eyes. They could swap the Airport card with a new one and see that nothing changes. They could stop iStumbler and see that the network dies, and start iStumbler and see that the network comes back. All of this is not normal. All of this is not my imagination. Tea and biscuits are always ready for them when they want to come.

It's certainly not normal nor your imagination, but it's not necessarily Apple's issue. If it's your router that's at fault, your router manufacturer must address it, and if it's due to environmental causes - namely interference from other devices - there's no real solution at all.

Regardless, I urge you and everyone else here to please contact AppleCare. That is how problems are resolved and the number of complaints received there is how problem severity is determined and correspondingly, how engineering resources are assigned.

Do you experience the problem only with the USB hard drive? In my setup, wireless won't work as soon as I attach a firewire drive. However, I have no problem when I plug in my iPhone via USB.

The question is now if you have problem only with the USB drive or also with other USB peripherals like iPhone or iPod. Is the USB drive self powered or connected to an external power source?

Hope 10.5.6 brings a solution, but the longer I think about it the more I dobelieve that it is hardware problem.

I (eventually) found a contact for Apple , so those of us who have issues can contact Apple directly with our feedback on the MacbookPro:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

or for any other Apple product:
http://www.apple.com/feedback.html

I realize the Apple care number is available in the box but it might be a good idea if Apple where to include such feedback addresses in the box with products so in case any issues arise customers would instantly know where to turn to let Apple know their experiences , rather than relying on the human interaction of a telephone representative .
Half the time in my experience when you phone Applecare they say " we where not aware of _insert issue here_ " despite said 'issue' being widely reported around the internet.

As William suggests , this is a user to user forum , though IMHO it would be common sense for at least some Apple tech's to read the comments from time to time , I mean when certain threads are getting massive hit counts , that kinda tells me somethings going on for more than just a few folks .

Might get more feedback going to the tech guys that way ,...I don't know ....just an idea , I like Apple a lot but sometimes.......

I have this drive from Lacie it is not the problem.

After a week feeling the problem is past .... Shazam it returned, this is what the crash debug message points:
Tue Nov 18 11:13:49 2008
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x001A8CEC): Kernel trap at 0x008d7953, type 0=divide error, registers:
CR0: 0x8001003b, CR2: 0x311be48c, CR3: 0x01486000, CR4: 0x00000660
EAX: 0x000000df, EBX: 0x00000010, ECX: 0x00000000, EDX: 0x00000000
CR2: 0x311be48c, EBP: 0x5b67f998, ESI: 0x00000202, EDI: 0x000000e0
EFL: 0x00010246, EIP: 0x008d7953, CS: 0x00000008, DS: 0x00000010
Error code: 0x00000000

Backtrace (CPU 0), Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack)
0x5b67f7a8 : 0x12b0fa (0x459234 0x5b67f7dc 0x133243 0x0)
0x5b67f7f8 : 0x1a8cec (0x4627a0 0x8d7953 0x0 0x461e80)
0x5b67f8d8 : 0x19eed5 (0x5b67f8f0 0x0 0x5b67f998 0x8d7953)
0x5b67f8e8 : 0x8d7953 (0xe 0xbaa0048 0xc60010 0xc60010)
0x5b67f998 : 0x8de71a (0x46a0d000 0x0 0x3 0xe)
0x5b67f9d8 : 0x8e047f (0x0 0x56f6e050 0x6 0x5b67faf4)
0x5b67fb28 : 0x8e1640 (0x1 0x0 0x1 0x1)
0x5b67fba8 : 0x8e2f73 (0x1 0x0 0x6da8380 0x46a0dc5c)
0x5b67fc88 : 0x8e314c (0x46a0d000 0x5b67fcc4 0x5b67fd08 0x5b67fd04)
0x5b67fd28 : 0x8e3549 (0x46a0d000 0x46a0ddf8 0x570ab400 0x4)
0x5b67fd68 : 0x898cd4 (0x46a0d000 0x570ab400 0x0 0x8d944b)
0x5b67fdb8 : 0x8d50ab (0x6dc2800 0x0 0xffffffff 0x46a0d000)
0x5b67fde8 : 0x8e89d3 (0x6dc3540 0x13469000 0x13 0x0)
0x5b67fea8 : 0x8f9b19 (0x46a0d000 0x6dc4420 0x13469000 0x53b0c0)
0x5b67ff08 : 0x91a577 (0x46a0d000 0x12 0x535838 0xc258748)
0x5b67ff28 : 0x4230dc (0x6dc3540 0x6dc3500 0x5b67ff8c 0x10)
Backtrace continues...
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.driver.AirPortBrcm43xx(361.9.5)@0x890000->0x9cffff
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IO80211Family(214.1)@0x871000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.4.1)@0x5c1000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONetworkingFamily(1.6.1)@0x5d1000

BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task

Mac OS version:
9F33

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 9.5.0: Wed Sep 3 11:29:43 PDT 2008; root:xnu-1228.7.58~1/RELEASE_I386
System model name: MacBookPro4,1



So I goes to Apple store and they will substitute my airport if you have the message goes to apple store and ask to replace your airport, since the upgrade of airport 2 weeks ago my airport stop to work correctly probably this problem is generated by defectuous FIRMWARE upgrade, this is probably the problem so the upgrade of airport screwed it.

beccajnr,

The feedback links are just that, for feedback. The mail sent that way is reviewed periodically by various teams but not necessarily in a timely way.

The feedback links are more for things like "I wish Mac OS X did THIS" or "Why did you get rid of FireWire on MacBooks" mail.

However that is not the way to log immediate issues nor to try to get immediate help; that should be done via AppleCare.

Have you opened an AppleCare ticket on your issue yet? If not, why not?

It's part of your warranty, so it's free to do so.

Yes, I know the AppleCare folks rarely acknowledge an issue, but you also have to realize that they only know what engineering tells them; it's not their job to read Apple message boards trolling for problems, either.

The route to get issues addressed is via AppleCare; I can't emphasize that enough.

When a critical mass hits AppleCare on a particular issue, it gets escalated.

If you're not having luck talking to the first line reps, ask for a more senior or L2 tech.

Your panic occurred in the AirPort kernel module, so it may well be due to bad firmware, though a flaky AirPort card is more likely the cause.

Bought 2 - 17" MacBook Pros, just released in October, and this problem existed right out of the box. Talked to Apple Tech, they made an appointment with the local Apple Store for a Airport Card replacement.

FYI, these two machines replaced two G4 iBooks, that never dropped service with ourBelkin Router.

Apple Store couldn't recreate the problem, so they blew me off, by suggesting I buy an Airport Extreme. We did, but the problem didn't go away.

The Belkin Router has had as many as 7 machines online in the past, and no one ever got dropped.

This is not a router problem, this is a Hardware problem, and Apple needs to correct it.

thanks I alreay orded a new airport device for my mac

William: That sounds like a wonderful idea... if our assumptions hold true:
1. We live anywhere near an Apple store.
2. Presuming we can duplicate the connectivity problem in the store. I think that's what most folks miss when trying to figure this out: it's sporadic. Sometimes we hold a connection for a few seconds, and can't get on for hours, other times we're hooked up for days with no issue.
3. I've tried using my Airport Extreme, Express, & TimePortal as my base station, I've tried the neighbor's Linksys, and I've tried Netgear... all sporadic outages when the Mac is in a bad mood ... but sporadic can't justify a few hundred dollars for a trip to a store.

Regretfully, we don't have a full day to plan a trip to the nearest Apple store, pray that we can duplicate the problem on their network, and the hope the Apple gods smile upon us for a same day appointment with a Genius, book a hotel, and then drive home the next day. Sometimes Apple users aren't big city folks. But us poor ol' redneck folk will either see a fix from Apple, or plan a mini-vacation to an Apple store.

It's been 48 hours, and the Airport has been picking up signal wonderfully. It's just been in a better mood these past two days. I'll try not to make it angry.

I recall an automaker having issues with exploding cars, while making a left turn? I recall Wii had controllers flying out of people's hands like missiles? The difference between the two scenarios?
Wii simply issued replacements and an an apology, the automaker ignored it until enough people died. Wii is quite successful... the automaker's begging for a bailout. Moral of the comparison? Do the right thing, right away.

I think many of us, would just like to hear Apple say... "we might have a little bit of a problem, and we're going to look into it and fix it" rather than exhibit Microsoft like arrogance of not acknowledging it. Just read the AI post... read the posts on your own forum... have someone from the exec office say "Hey guys & gals... we hear you. We're working on it."

Okay, we get it... we all knew we were taking a risk on buying a new untested machine. Many of us have faith in Apple to do the right thing, meaning if you have an issue with a number of machines... acknowledge it and make it right.

And there are those of us who are share holders, who rely on Apple to "fix" the bugs before the Black Friday boom. Taking new market share is a great concept... keeping it is the challenge. From your shareholders a friendly reminder: "don't screw this up."

I'm not sure if this has already been suggested, I don't remember seeing it, but the one I was able to get back on line was to Turn Airport Off, wait to see that it had taken place, and then Turn Airport back on.

HTH

Lee

Lee... good call. Works for us sometimes too.
The point most folks are making is we expect better post release performance from Apple. You shouldn't have to turn Airport on & off to make it work.