Dead logic board in my PowerBook G4

if the logic board is dead, repair is not worthwhile
anyway, there is a way to test for power without the top case/keyboard
maybe get a second opinion:
http://www.applespecialist.com/

Li'l Roo:

Welcome to Apple Discussions.

The iBook G4 has a number of logic board issues, only one of which responds to the shim fix. I have not heard of any such issues with the PowerBook G4. You might want to call the Apple Store and enquire whether your computer qualifies for the flat rate. It may be the less expensive route than logic board replacement.

😉 cornelius

Welcome to Apple Discussions!

One possibility for another opinion is DT&T:

http://www.dttservice.com/index.html

I have never used them myself, but they have been highly recommended on the iBook forum, and it is my understanding that they will do a diagnosis for free, and presumedly, a repair quote.

I actually have an iBook G4 which had a logic board failure, so I am somewhat familiar with that issue. The failure which can be temporarily fixed with a shim is actually a failure of the ball grid array which is what holds the chips to the logic board. It is a failure of the soldering joints, which are very rigid and which after many heating and cooling cycles will develop cracks, and in extreme cases, the chip will not always make good contact with the board. Exerting pressure in the form of a shim will force the chip to make better contact and it will function again. This is at best just a temporary measure. A true repair is to send the board off to a specialist for a re-ball. This is what I did, and the board was repaired for about $75 and has been working ever since.

Now a PowerBook is not the same as an iBook, and clearly has not had the same logic board issues as the iBook has. However, as far as I know, the chips are still held to the logic board with a BGA, and it is at least in the realm of possibility that a similar failure could have taken place. If so, it is possible that a re-ball could fix it. You would, of course, have to take the board out yourself and send it off. You can find instructions for removing the logic board at ifixit:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/

The usual deal is that you only pay if the logic board can be fixed this way. If it can't be fixed, you don't pay anything, but you also generally don't get it back.

Apple authorized repair services can often do a repair for less than Apple itself, so it's worth shopping around. You can save even more money if you can do the repair yourself. I don't know what you are willing to do to fix your PB, but it is always good to consider all the possible options before making a decision.

Good luck!

DT&T Computer Services have an excellent reputation for good work. However, to repair/replace a logic board costs $295 to $395. If the computer is eligible for the flat rate from Apple they will fix everything that is wrong with the computer for around $350.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have not encountered any issues in the PB forums relating to failed logic board solder joints. That is not to say that there are none, just that if there are, it would be rare.

😉 cornelius

I think the problem with the iBook is that the iBook is physically quite flexible, and that it is a combination of flexing and the brittleness and inflexibility of the BGA that leads to the logic board failures. So very likely it would be a long shot that we are dealing with a BGA failure here on the PB. I was mostly thinking along the lines that if a logic board replacement was deemed to be too expensive, trying a re-ball as a last ditch effort to fix the logic board might be worth a shot. If it didn't work, the OP would just be out the cost of shipping. If it did work, it would be a cheap repair.

One other thing I wonder about. I never see anything about the BGA on any other forums than the iBook forum, and I think we see it there because Richard (spudnuty) has enlightened us about it. I can't help but wonder if it may be a factor in other logic board failures, but just be unrecognized because it is not on anybody's radar screen.

But it is also probably the case that the PB is configured differently and not subject to the same stresses and strains as the iBook, and consequently that type of failure would be rare on the PB, as you say. It was not my intention to disagree with you, but only to mention another possibility and option for repair to the OP, even if it is something of a long shot.

In any event, $295, $395, and $350 are all way better than $1100+.

S.U.

It was not my intention to disagree with you

Please don't ever hesitate to disagree with me. That way not only do I have to consider a different point of view, but I also learn something new.

On reflection I remember on case of a 12" PB G4 that went to Superior for reballing. All I remember is that the user had not heard from Superior and his calls were not being returned or answered. I don't remember how or if the matter was resolved.

😉 cornelius

cornelius,

You are most gracious! May I ask a question? Do you have a link for where Apple will repair a computer for a flat fee, or is this something one has to call Apple about? I was wanting to see a list of what computers would qualify for this type of repair. Thanks!

S.U.

S.U.

This quote from a post by eww

the criteria for Flat Rate Repair eligibility have never been published by Apple, so no one but Apple can tell you whether your Powerbook qualifies. Take it to a Genius Bar and ask.

from Question about flat rate for repairs. A search will reveal other topics that relate to your question, but I think this answers your question.

😉

cornelius,

Indeed it does! Thank you!

S.U.

Anytime.

😉

why does a broken logic board make the unit not worth repair?

Often the cost of a logic board and the labor to replace it can approach the cost of a new machine, and if it does, it may not be worth putting so much money into an older machine instead of using it to get a new one. However, if you can do the work yourself, you would save on the labor cost. If your machine would qualify for the $350 Flat Rate Repair cited earlier in this thread, it would become quite cost effective. A lot will depend on whether you can qualify for this program or do the work yourself or have to pay someone to do it.

Good luck!

why does a broken logic board make the unit not worth repair?

Because in many cases, having a technician replace a Powerbook's logic board will cost more than the fair market value of the Powerbook. You could buy a comparable used Powerbook in working condition for less than repairing your own would cost, unless you replace the LB yourself. This isn't to say you'd be nuts to have the repair work done, but you'd want at least to be aware of all the options first, and you'd have to accept that even if you did have the repair done, your Powerbook might break down again at any time: it's now an old computer, after all.

The problem with the broken logic board diagnosis is that it is too broadly general. In the case of iBooks, for example, it may be a bad relay switch, bad processor solder joints, video chip, ATA Controller etc. Some of these can be repaired by reballing and some not. Unfortunately the average user, as most of use are, does not have the tools for an accurate diagnosis, and troubleshooting is an imprecise art. In some computers, like my Pismo, not only is the logic board more easily accessible than later Apple laptops, you can buy a replacement Pismo logic board for $30 on eBay.

The other factor is that some of us are very attached sentimentally to our computers. One Pismo owner has spent close to a thousand dollars trying to get his Pismo fixed rather than putting the money to getting a used Pismo (he also owns a MacBook). So that the value of a computer is calculated in different currency for different people.

In general, both S.U. and eww are correct, that it may not be worth it. However, S.U. will tell you that he had the logic board of his iBook G4 reballed at a reasonable price. If one is talking in strictly financial terms, you might be better off selling the computer for parts on eBay and buying a new or used one. If you computer is worth more than money to you, that's a different calculation.

😉 cornelius

You make a good point when you say "the problem with the broken logic board diagnosis is that it is too broadly general". I also think that it's important not to conclude that the logic board is at fault until all other possibilities have been eliminated. Sometimes I think people are too quick to blame any problem on the logic board.

Your other point is also well taken--that whether or not it is worth fixing depends greatly on what it is worth to you. My iBook was my first computer ever, and it was an iBook because it was all I could afford or justify at the time. I had an ongoing love/hate relationship with it, and when the logic board failed, I opted to try fixing it in the cheapest possible way by sending it to Superior. Even though I have read a lot of bad ink on Dale, my own experience was excellent, and it was immensely satisfying to hear the start up chime after I reassembled it. I actually had more fun taking it apart and working on it than I did learning how to use it. Once it was fixed and treated to a new hard drive, I gave it away to my better half. So it was easily worth the $150 I ended up spending for the reball and new drive. But it would not have been worth paying the retail price for someone to replace the logic board and hard drive at a cost of several hundred dollars.

In the meantime, I bought a 17" MBP, and this is a computer that I truly love. I am not impressed with the new unibody MBP's. If mine breaks down, I will fix it, no matter what it takes. I like it--it's exactly what I want and need. So I can relate to your fondness for your Pismo, and willingness to do whatever it takes to keep it going. Truly how you feel about your computer will be the determining factor in what you will want to do to fix it.