13 Replies Latest reply: Dec 17, 2008 6:04 PM by Frederick Avolio
Michael Szromba Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
It looks like gmail treats the Mac Mail Delete button as the Archive button. Is there a way to actually delete mail using Mac Mail?

Mac Pro Dual 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, Mac OS X (10.5.5), Blue & White G3
  • Michael Szromba Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    How do you gmail, IMAP acct users get all the features to operate in the Mail pgm? If you want to star something or delete it, do you have to physically drag it to those folders or is there a way to set up buttons coordinating w/gmail buttons? If I drag spam, that made it through, to the spam folder, does it get marked as spam with gmail?
  • Frederick Avolio Level 3 Level 3 (935 points)
    Check the directions and settings I reference in my blog entrieds <a href="http://blog.avolio.com/2008/10/mail-and-gmail.html"Mail and Gmail</a> and More on Mail and Gmail.

    Star = Flagged, by the way.

    -fred
  • Frederick Avolio Level 3 Level 3 (935 points)
    Sorry. With corrected link...

    Check the directions and settings I reference in my blog entries Mail and Gmail and More on Mail and Gmail.

    Star = Flagged, by the way.

    -fred
  • Michael Szromba Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Great reading... thx! Some questions;

    Why do you put "gmail" in the IMAP Path Prefix?

    I have everything ticked in the Mailbox Behaviors except Store Sent Mail on Server. Now I have a Deleted Messages folder (which has appeared as a subfolder of Mike's Email, not the Gmail folder where the other 5 subfolders have appeared. The problem is, it doesn't operate any differently. If I delete mail, it goes to All Mail... if I mark something as spam, it marks it & winds up in All Mail. Assuming I've done something wrong or haven't done something right to get all this functioning, then how would I archive mail I actually want to archive?

    ...ok my next question was going to be why I have another subfolder of the Mike's Email (below the gmail subfolders) labeled with my personal Comcast acct address with old emails form Jan through the end of August. In looking at gmail on the google server, I found out these are Labeled folders. Not sure why the Comcast account is there. Must have been from an old config... any idea what might have been going on with that? I think I was forwarding it somehow at one time, but how did it end up labeled? And my Deleted Messages is also a Labeled folder... what am I doing wrong??
  • Michael Szromba Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    I've made a couple revelations poking around on my own... I opened all the flippy triangles in Mail & found the IMAP account's (Mike's Email) Junk folder & Trash folder. So this means the Deleted Messages subfolder under Mike's Email is unnecessary & I can zap it? And now Mike's Email will have 2 Junk folders, one on my hard drive for the one's gmail misses & then the Spam subfolder under Gmail for what it catches???

    Still need to know how to archive mail in Mail & why that Comcast subfolder ended up there.

    And while I'm at it... Under Trash, I have an empty trash subfolder called On My Mac. Is that there by default or can I nix it? And then, under On My Mac, I have a "Junk (Mike's Email)" subfolder for some reason... empty. A result of my experimenting perhaps??? Can I delete it?

    Finally... with an IMAP acct, can I set up to hide deleted email rather than move it to a Trash folder, like w/a POP acct? Reason being, I have a non-gmail business (no mail archive feature) account I like to keep deleted emails for a year in. Mail's Delete Trash feature allows a month as the longest time for auto delete. Or if not, is there another way to accomplish this?
  • Frederick Avolio Level 3 Level 3 (935 points)
    Why do you put "gmail" in the IMAP Path Prefix?


    Just to structure all folder under one hierarchy in the IMAP structure. I don't want them all under INBOX, for example, which I think is the default. I wanted it in separate structure. You don't have to do this; you can follow http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=77663.


    I have everything ticked in the Mailbox Behaviors except Store Sent Mail on Server. Now I have a Deleted Messages folder (which has appeared as a subfolder of Mike's Email, not the Gmail folder where the other 5 subfolders have appeared. The problem is, it doesn't operate any differently. If I delete mail, it goes to All Mail... if I mark something as spam, it marks it & winds up in All Mail. Assuming I've done something wrong or haven't done something right to get all this functioning, then how would I archive mail I actually want to archive?



    Two questions in the above, so two answers. 1) I suspect you did not go through all of the selecting and tagging of messages I suggest in Mail and Gmail, after the words "These are mine and my reasons." You need to find "Deleted Messages" and "Use this mailbox for... Trash." Same for Spam, as I say.

    ok my next question was going to be why I have another subfolder of the Mike's Email .... And my Deleted Messages is also a Labeled folder... what am I doing wrong??


    Tell Mail to use Deleted Messages for Trash and it will sort out. You'll need to let it synchronize ... be patient.

    I've made a couple revelations poking around on my own... I opened all the flippy triangles in Mail & found the IMAP account's (Mike's Email) Junk folder & Trash folder. So this means the Deleted Messages subfolder under Mike's Email is unnecessary & I can zap it? And now Mike's Email will have 2 Junk folders, one on my hard drive for the one's gmail misses & then the Spam subfolder under Gmail for what it catches???


    Yeah, Mail makes some local folders (On my Mac). I usually keep that triangle closed. I do move mail I want to Archive under there. "Archive," not in the Google Mail sense in which is is saved in All Mail, but "Archive" as in take it out of the server but keep it where I can get recover it if needed. It stays on my Mac but not on the server.

    Still need to know how to archive mail in Mail & why that Comcast subfolder ended up there.


    Don't understand what you did to get the Comcast subfolder, but to Archive (in the Gmail sense), I just move the message or messages to All Mail. Do you have more than one email server configured?

    So, yes, I might have 2 copies of each message. For now, I don't care. I mention this in Mail and Gmail in the paragraph that starts "There was one thing that really bothered me."


    And while I'm at it... Under Trash, I have an empty trash subfolder called On My Mac. Is that there by default or can I nix it? And then, under On My Mac, I have a "Junk (Mike's Email)" subfolder for some reason... empty. A result of my experimenting perhaps??? Can I delete it?


    Maybe. I'd just delete any messages in them. I don't remember why they are there. I usually keep the "triangle" next to Trash, etc., closed.

    Finally... with an IMAP acct, can I set up to hide deleted email rather than move it to a Trash folder, like w/a POP acct? Reason being, I have a non-gmail business (no mail archive feature) account I like to keep deleted emails for a year in. Mail's Delete Trash feature allows a month as the longest time for auto delete. Or if not, is there another way to accomplish this?


    Yes. Set Instead of what I said about moving things to Trash, just use Deleted Mail and do not tell mail to use it as Trash. But, then, you will have to manage those.

    Let's back up a step. Gmail did not have an idea of deleting email. All mail was kept forever. As I say in one of my blog entries, "There are some messages no one wants to save. No matter how cheap disk space is." The addition of Trash and the idea of deleting messages was an "add on" to Gmail.

    Where I you, I would use Mail Act-on to create a rule to Archive one or more messages. This is what I do. I tie it to Control-a, and the rule is to move the message to All Mail. I might use another key sequence to move messages you want to delete to Deleted Messages. Then you have to manually get rid of messages according to your schedule.

    Whew.

    -fred
  • Michael Szromba Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Fred... I really appreciate all the help... and the typing!! I'm taking baby steps here, from the beginning, to make certain I have an understanding. There isn't a way to post a screenshot here is there? I wanted to show you how my folder hierarchy is set up to see if it all jibes. I've added Gmail to the IMAP Path Prefix. It restructured things a bit, then went through a 10/15 minute resync. I have 5 accounts in Mail, the new IMAP acct & 4 POP's (which I'll be converting to IMAP's as soon as I understand all this). For the IMAP, I now have an inbox under Inbox; drafts under Drafts; sent under Sent, On My Mac and trash under Trash; nothing for the IMAP under Junk; junk (IMAP Acct) under On My Mac; then a whole separate folder structure for the IMAP with All Mail, Sent Mail (redundant from above) Spam, Starred. The extra Deleted Messages folder & the Comcast folder (labeled folder from gmail) are now gone.

    Which of these folders will be used? And which folders do I tell Mail to use for Trash & Junk?

    Let me just take it this far for now to prevent further confusion! Thx
  • Frederick Avolio Level 3 Level 3 (935 points)
    Michael Szromba wrote:
    Fred... I really appreciate all the help... and the typing!! I'm taking baby steps here, from the beginning, to make certain I have an understanding.


    Good idea.

    There isn't a way to post a screenshot here is there? I wanted to show you how my folder hierarchy is set up to see if it all jibes.


    Email me. fred at avolio dot com.

    I've added Gmail to the IMAP Path Prefix. It restructured things a bit, then went through a 10/15 minute resync. I have 5 accounts in Mail, the new IMAP acct & 4 POP's (which I'll be converting to IMAP's as soon as I understand all this). For the IMAP, I now have an inbox under Inbox; drafts under Drafts; sent under Sent, On My Mac and trash under Trash; nothing for the IMAP under Junk; junk (IMAP Acct) under On My Mac; then a whole separate folder structure for the IMAP with All Mail, Sent Mail (redundant from above) Spam, Starred. The extra Deleted Messages folder & the Comcast folder (labeled folder from gmail) are now gone.


    Cool, but before I answer the rest I will wait for a picture.

    -fred
  • Frederick Avolio Level 3 Level 3 (935 points)
    Hey Fred... here's the screenshots. "Mike" is the IMAP acct. The shot labeled [Gmail] is with [Gmail] in the prefix area. Blank is left blank (after I had already set it to [Gmail] and it had done all it's restructuring/resyncing). The only difference is that, when left blank, it moves the IMAP Trash folder from the separate Trash area down with the other IMAP folders. And it also removes the On My Mac Trash folder.


    As you probably saw on my blog, I have a bunch of sub folders and other mailboxes. You don't seem to, yet, but you do have numerous email accounts.

    It looks like things are on target. The only things to do, if you want (and I am referring to Gmail.png) is to indicate that Mike/Sent Mail should be used for Sent, Mike/Spam as Junk, and you are good. (If you are configured as Blank.png indicates, then of course add Mike/Trash to that also, unless you want to manage it yourself as we discussed, rather than having it end up in Gmail's Trash (with 30 day life time).

    -fred
  • Michael Szromba Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Frederick Avolio wrote:
    It looks like things are on target. The only things to do, if you want (and I am referring to Gmail.png) is to indicate that Mike/Sent Mail should be used for Sent, Mike/Spam as Junk, and you are good.

    -fred

    I need a little clarification; are all your folders shown on your blog under the IMAP acct like I have at the bottom? Where is your Inbox? My folders for the IMAP acct are all over the place; I have folders under Inbox, Drafts, Sent & Trash for the IMAP acct as well as, the folders set up separately at the bottom; All Mail, Sent Mail, Spam & Starred which were created when I set up the IMAP acct.

    Since I messed with that prefix setting, my drafts aren't showing up in Mail.

    I have 2 redundant Sent folders.

    Aside from that confusion, I'm unsure as to why I need to tell these folders what to do when they seem to already be doing it... with the exception of Drafts.

    Also, I'm still not understanding how to archive mail. Do I have to physically drag the mail to the folder or is there a button I can allocate for this?

    Finally, are all those folders you've made gmail's Labeled folders? How does that work... are you receiving the mail in an inbox & then filing it or do you have some automation set up?
  • Frederick Avolio Level 3 Level 3 (935 points)
    are all your folders shown on your blog under the IMAP acct like I have at the bottom?


    Yes. I had already created them on my previous IMAP server. Gmail maps the folders to labels. See http://www.avolio.com/pics/Labels.jpg and http://www.avolio.com/pics/MailFolders.jpg and you'll see.

    Where is your Inbox?


    Like yours. Inboxes are grouped up near the top of the window. I can email you a picture if you need. But it is like the images you sent me. In the Mail client, Mail groups "special mailboxes from different accounts together. I usually keep them closed so it looks like 1 Inbox, 1 Trash, etc. Clicking on Inbox, will show all messages.

    Also, I'm still not understanding how to archive mail. Do I have to physically drag the mail to the folder or is there a button I can allocate for this?


    Well... we're talking Mail and Gmail. All email messages are archived unless you call it Spam or Trash. If I want to delete a message (for good) I select the message and hit the deleted key. This moves it to Trash where it will eventually be removed. If I want to move it into another mailbox, for example -- see the screen shot I pointed to above -- Lists/Mac -- I select the message or messages and Control-Mouse-Move to and then pic Lists/Mac. If I want to Archive it -- which means just removing it from the Inbox without deleting it, I do the same as I just described, but move it into "All Mail."

    Finally, are all those folders you've made gmail's Labeled folders? How does that work... are you receiving the mail in an inbox & then filing it or do you have some automation set up?


    See above. I created them in Mail. (Mailbox/New Mailbox... and then mailboxname or foldername/mailbox, like "Lists/firewalls" in my example. I could have created them in Gmail.

    -fred
  • Michael Szromba Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Sorry... just trying to get a full handle on this... why does Mail make redundant folders; i.e. a Sent folder with all the Sent folders from other accounts AND another below with the IMAP acct? Can I delete one? Which???

    I just noticed that Gmail makes a few redundant folders... I think. Down in the Labels folders, I have;
    [Gmail]/Apple Mail To Do
    (0 conversations)
    [Imap]/Drafts
    (0 conversations)
    Apple Mail To Do
    (0 conversations)
    Deleted Messages
    (0 conversations)
    Junk (Mike's Email)
    (5 conversations)
    mszromba@comcast.net
    (237 conversations)

    Why the 2 To Do folders and what's the [IMAP] Drafts for? There's one above. And then the Deleted Messages... how is that different from the Trash folder above. Same with Junk (Mike's Email)... how's that different than the spam folder.
  • Frederick Avolio Level 3 Level 3 (935 points)
    Mail makes different "special" folders for each mail account.

    If they appear under the mail account name, then you've neglected to tag them with a "Use as ...".

    I have one account. I told Mail to use Sent Messages in my IMAP folder as Sent and Deleted Messages as my Trash.

    See http://www.avolio.com/pics/closed.jpg and http://www.avolio.com/pics/opened.jpg for how it looks. I keep them "closed" as in http://www.avolio.com/pics/exampleclosed.jpg

    IMAP Drafts are there because your Mail setting you say to store Drafts on the server.

    -fred