Duende versus UAD

I don't like both of them, but that is because I have neither installed... by now, I don't want to, just because of the idle and annoying and very very childish bragging that has been going on, people being arrogant and 'knowing-it-all' ('mine is good, the other is crap').
Off topic too. This is a Logic forum, not some sort of 'Top Gear' for audio-stuff. So you have a Lambo - I don't care. All that matters is: can you drive it? Or will a real driver overtake you in his 'reasonably priced car'?

So, no competitions please.
Eventually, it is about music, and not about some electronic 'I have the best stuff' competition. Those threads are more boring and annoying than informative, especially since there tends to be a lot of silly misunderstandings, and out of place and unjustified anger and fanatasism.
Taste.
...if your music suks, no hard- or software can mend that. If your music is good, it will even sound good when played on a plastic Ukelele.
The rest is showing off, or looking for reassurance over money spent.

And on that bombshell...

I'd love to respond to this question sincerely, without the emotions of some here ruining an otherwise educational opinionated discussion.

First, my experience with each:

I owned Duende for a period of about 5 months, when it was first released. This was the full rack mountable version, connected to the computer via Firewire.

I have owned a single UAD-1 card since 2001, when it was first released.

So for about half a year, I had both on my system at the same time. And I was mixing a lot in that time period, so i had a chance to really dive into it.

The first problems came almost immediately. Using UAD plug-ins at the same time as Duende Plug-ins resulted in audio drop outs, severe clicks and pops, and in some cases, crashes.

I tried installing a PCI FW card, switching PCI slots, etc... nothing worked. Duende's tech support tried to help, but wasn't able to correct this problem. It turned out to be a combination of my G5's limited architecture, coupled with Duende's early drivers, which quite frankly, were not written very well, imo.

I was able to get work finished by always freezing tracks that used UAD plug-ins. This way, I was able to finish a mix using both. But as you can imagine, after a while, this really started to become a cumbersome way to mix, and ultimately, I decided it just wasn't worth the extra effort.

Because I had invested so much in UAD's plug-ins at that point, coupled with the fact that until I bought Duende, I had had a very stable system, I opted to let Duende go.


Regardless of my technical experiences with Duende's early outings, here are MY opinions...

Duende has that SSL sound down. the emulations are very, very good. the channel strip's EQ is among the best I have ever used. It's compressor sounds like an SSL channel compressor... which would be it's only negative. It has "that" sound. That can be a desirable feature, or not... still.. having SSL type compression available on a track doesn't suck... 🙂

Duende's 2 buss compressor sounded equally as good. Slap that on your master out, and sit back and smile...

I did not, unfortunately, have Duende long enough to get to use their newer plug-in, the ones optimized for drums and vocals.

As I stated, I became a UAD-1 user when that card was first released... back when I was using a 400 Mhz G4. I owned that same card up through my G5, and just recently sold it, as I moved to a Mac Pro, which uses PCIe slots. I replaced it with a UAD-2 Quad card.

The UAD plug-ins are ALL amazing. There truly is not a dog in the bunch. The compressors are worth the price of admission alone. that being said, I've never been a fan of slapping 1176's or LA-2A's on every track. These compressors have loads character... a lot of it. placing them on every track diminishes their uniqueness.

The EQ's available for the UAD card are also stunning. The Neve's are the bad boys here. The Neve channel strip can do what the SSL channel strip can do... similar functionality, in that there is a parametric EQ, compression, and gating, all in one plug-in. But there are also some cool optional EQ's , like the Helios, and the Pultec, which is truly an amazing sounding EQ. Limited in design, yes, but the sound more than makes up for that. It's not a surgical EQ... the Cambridge is better suited for that type of functionality.

Here's my opinion... both Duende and UAD will add a wonderful dimension to your mixes, providing you know how to use these tools. They both sound great... they really do.

One is not better than the other... they both can serve the exact same purpose. I was finding I preferred Duende's EQ on some things, but not others. I had options, which was wonderful.

Long term, I do believe that even though it's more of an investment to go with a UAD card (once you start buying all the optional plug-ins, and there's a LOT there), it's a sound investment. If you think you might want more than just great EQ and compression, it makes sense to take a closer look...

Whatever you decide to go with, you'll be getting some of the higher quality plug-ins available. It's a win-win situation, as I see it.

I withdraw my earlier sourness... Nice post, Jim.

regards, Erik.

I should also chime in here, as I'm one of those lucky folks who never really had a problem with the Duende (and mine has a two-digit serial number). I also had a UAD-1 for many years, and now have a UAD-2.

Anyway - Duende really does give you the sound of an SSL console, and it does +that one thing+ perfectly. The Channel Strip and Bus Compressor are without question the best plugins I have ever used. I don't use any of the newer Duende plugins though; I've demoed them and they are very very good, but don't give me anything I don't already have elsewhere.

Where UAD excels is in the emulation of vintage gear, and lots of it. As Jim said, in can get expensive (especially since whichever plugin you demo, you will have to have it; they are all exceptional). My favorite is still the Plate 140 though, FWIW

There do seem to be more complaints of things not working from the Duende crowd than the UAD crowd, though you have to be careful about jumping to conclusions (case in point: I could never get my UAD-1 card working at all when I switched to a Mac Pro and had to wait for the UAD-2, whereas the Duende transition went without a hitch). So if you can find a way to try before you buy, perhaps from a local dealer, that would be very helpful.

So it really boils down to what sound you really want to add to your in-the-box mixes: an SSL console, or classic gear. I agree that UAD and Duende are still the best plugins available, so you can't lose.

Dimitris108...

If you're in the Brooklyn NY area and would like to stop by to demo them both, shoot me an email at lordtom@optonline.net. I have the Duende with the channel strip and the buss comp, I also have the Uad 1 card that I've added some of the optional plugins as well.,

AD2

Duende does not support Logic freeze function...
you have ONLY 16 stereo channel or 32 mono tracks...
if you need more you need to spend additional money
using 2x Duende in the same firewire buss gives SERIOUS PROBLEM!!!


UAD support Logic Freeze and you can use ULIMITED channel strips without buy additional card


With UAD you have:
Fairchild 670 Buss compressor
Neve 33096 compressor
Buss Compressors
3 different Neve channel strips

Dream Verb is one of the best reverb that you can find
Plate 140 is one of the TOP legendary reverber in the world

ther are Roland Vintage series

Now All Moog parts will be ported inside UAD-2

IMPORTANT: the best mastering plugins are in the UAD store

DBX series coming soon including legendary KeepexII

see here how many legendary Brand name are available as UAD
http://www.uaudio.com/products/store/index.html

you can see here how many devices and famous brand factory prefer to give to Universal Audio the original project of the ddevice that makes the story of the AUDIO RECORDING!

Duende comes only with 1 compressor and 1 channel strip...
No mastering plugins are included

AND the winner is.... as you prefer

I use UAD!

G

I have very attendibile by qualified Digital sound Engeeners notice about wath I just said
(one of the obvious beahavior is.. the LATENCY IS NOT THE SAME for uad and Duende and cannot be compesated... you got serious problem and crash!)
UAD works iin Live mode with Logic... without any Latency!!!!

in any case the Title of this post is *Duende Versus UAD*
So why you are focused to this point?

Unfortunately for Duende the two different package cannot be compared... bacause as you can see in my replay:::: THERE IS NO STORY and there is no HISTORY!!!

My replay is not focused to determinate if they can work together (but maybe i don't understand well english... the title of the post is Duende and UAD are best friends??? but Versus is a Latin word... and I replaying to that!)

MY point is simple... if you have a UAD you don't need Duende at ALL
they are made for the same result

ADDING analog taste to the Digital Sound in your Audio DAWs...
The sound that you can achieve with the moltitude of UAD plugins, Eqs (that emulate Solid State preampss, Compressor with SSL, VCA, Valve, Special Lat/vert features as Mastering compressor, Buss compressor with SSL emulator,
REVERBER...
THE Uad reverbs are much better tha any IR used Altiverb, waves, Space Designer
you Never listen a reverb if you don't use DreamVerb and Plate 140

FX Chorus: you have not ever heard the sound of a chorus if you don't use ROLAND chorus

UAD comes with 20 Years of experience in this specific research
Duende is only the Digital part (reduced) of SSL consolle that comes with great ANALOG PREAMPs that are specially designed for the Digital SSL chipset!

if you buy only the Digital part of the SSL consolle you will never be able to have the real great sound of the original one...
There are too many variables:
If you use a Digidesig 003 preamps... (it is not a great preanp and it is not designed by SSL consolle)

I hope you have 16 Valve Such as Avalon or I suggest to buy a REAL SOLID STATE PREAMP THAT MUST BE IN any professional recording Studio used as inputs connected to the Duende!

The sound of a Solid State Preamp is Fantastic... it can be used for mastering as outboard device!

I'm not speculate at all... I just give to you my personal experience!
you are free to make your choice and your experiences...

But I suggest you to use 2 different Macs or PC... if you want accept my advice, it is: use Duende installed in PC... and UAD in Mac!!

G

Fresh Air. Great Post. 'Nuff said.

I can add this
http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/Duende/PCIe/specs.asp

PCIe SSL
support Logic 7 and Logic 8.01

Only 32 MONO channel up to 96khz (UAD supports up to 192Khz)

Does not support FREEZE!
Cannot be used on stereo VSTi such as Stylus RMX ... NI B4... EXS24 ... Vienna orchestra... without adding latency in Logic
it works only on AUDIO TRACKS!

problem also without UAD installed, because is not officially compatibile with Logic 8.0.2!



G