Capturing Two Cameras, Free Run Timecode! Help?

Question

Capturing Two Cameras, Free Run Timecode! Help?

Hello, I just shot a live concert with two DVXs, free run timecode started at the same time so that the footage will roughly line up, and with a little bit of adjustment, they ought to line up perfectly in Final Cut Pro.. That is except for the fact that:

One camera recorder non-stop, except for tape changes, and the stop record was never engaged. The other camera was started and stopped for close-ups throughout the night.. Yes, the timecode will match up because they were on FreeRun, but the fact that the other one didn't roll the whole time poses a problem I believe.

Quesiton: Does final cut pro have an option to fill in the "holes" with black video so that if I do a multi-cam edit they line up throughout the entire timecoded sequence. This will prevent me from having to constantly slide the camera two clips down the sequence and realign timecode for every cut.

Not sure if I properly articulated myself, any help would be greatly appreciate!

Thanks in Advance!

IMAC Power PC, Mac OS X (10.5.6)

Posted on Jan 1, 2009 12:55 PM

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Answer 1

Jan 1, 2009 1:23 PM in response to Brett Hickman

Hey Brett,

The short answer to your question is "no".
I encountered a similar problem, and I found only two solutions:

1. divide the concert into separate multiclips, do the edits,
and then combine them into one sequence. This works OK,
if the start/stops are different songs. It probably won't work
for you since the start/stops are cutaways. So, for you:

2. Sync up all the clips of camera 2 in a sequence,
making sure the timecode matches camera 1's for
each clip, then export the camera 2 sequence (using current settings)
to a new file (yes, I know, lots of wasted black pixels).
Import the file and make a multiclip with it and camera 1,
syncing to in-points.

Solution 2 does produce a big file, but the technique works.

Les

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Answer 2

Jan 1, 2009 1:22 PM in response to Brett Hickman

Does final cut pro have an option to fill in the "holes" with black video so that if I do a multi-cam edit they line up throughout the entire timecoded sequence

No. You'll have to manually line up the clips.

-DH

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Answer 3

Jan 1, 2009 1:33 PM in response to Brett Hickman

Because of the way multiclipping works in fcp (and other nles to my knowledge), if one of the cameras starts and stops all the time you end up with a multiclip with 24 angles. What you need to do is create a sequence, put camera 1 on v1, adding in any necessary gaps for the tape changes. You then need to put the camera 2 shots on v2, using the source and canvas v1 timecode overlays to position the shots correctly.
Once you're happy with all the sync, then export both v1 and v2 as separate QT movies, same as source, and import the resulting files back into fcp to make your 2 angle multiclips. You can modify the timecodes of the qt files after reimporting so that the timecodes match the original tapes and any notes made during the shoot.

BUT, if you didn't sync the cameras together in some way, then the free-run timecode won't be 100% accurate anyway. What procedures/equipment did you use to set, start and control the timecode during shooting?

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Answer 4

Jan 1, 2009 2:38 PM in response to J S Langham

Thank you all very much for your input, I will try all ideas suggested, can't thank y'all enough.

Langham: It was super low-tech, no budget.. The start stop clock was literally my finger on both cameras initiating the free-run at the same time.. I realize that this will offset the alignment anywhere from some frames, to several seconds.. Once I figure out the offset, I can then apply that offset amount to any other the cutaway clips I add to V1.

Again! Thanks for your help.. I will try this first.

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Answer 5

Jan 1, 2009 2:46 PM in response to J S Langham

J S Langham wrote:
You can modify the timecodes of the qt files after reimporting so that the timecodes match the original tapes and any notes made during the shoot.

What modification of timecodes needs to take place.. If I export the V1,V2 tracks into uncompressed QT files, will I loose my intial timecodes and then use the Timecode Generator effect to recreate the timecodes?

Thanks Langham.

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Answer 6

Jan 1, 2009 4:22 PM in response to Brett Hickman

Brett Hickman wrote:

J S Langham wrote:
You can modify the timecodes of the qt files after reimporting so that the timecodes match the original tapes and any notes made during the shoot.

What modification of timecodes needs to take place.. If I export the V1,V2 tracks into uncompressed QT files, will I loose my intial timecodes and then use the Timecode Generator effect to recreate the timecodes?

See the manual for AUX TIMECODE.

The thread harkens back to the olden days when mutlicamera in FCP was a total hack job. But not that difficult. We just lined up the contents of two track, turned one of them off, and razored out and deleted everything that was unusable. Then it was a fairly simple process of filling the holes. The roaming camera often had to be synced to the soundtrack of the stationary camera and then nested or imported as a reference or self-contained movie.
With only two cameras and amateur shooters, you can have huge holes and nothing to put in them that satisfies your standards.

bogiesan

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Answer 7

Jan 2, 2009 9:11 AM in response to Brett Hickman

Here's the way I work. I create a sequence with everything synched up with different angles on different video tracks. Every time there is a gap in one video track, I blade all other tracks. This creates vertical sections that can be turned into individual multiclips. I then select all the clips in an individual vertical section and drag all these clips to a new folder in the browser (keeping each section in it's own bin, just makes things neater). Each of the resultant clips will have the correct in and out points that you need to create a multiclip. I then edit all the multiclips into a new sequence and "switch" away.

If you think this might be the way for you to work and I haven't made myself sufficiently clear, post back and I'll try and go thru it step by step.

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Answer 8

Jan 2, 2009 9:59 AM in response to Brett Hickman

Brett Hickman wrote:

J S Langham wrote:
You can modify the timecodes of the qt files after reimporting so that the timecodes match the original tapes and any notes made during the shoot.

What modification of timecodes needs to take place.. If I export the V1,V2 tracks into uncompressed QT files, will I loose my intial timecodes and then use the Timecode Generator effect to recreate the timecodes?

Thanks Langham.

You're on the right track, but timecode generator is not the answer. Timecode Generator is a visual effect, nothing to do with the actual timecode of the clip.
What I'm referring to is modifying the master timecode (search the manual for modifying/changing timecode) of the new qt exports so that they (instead of starting at 00:00:00:00) match the original tapes timecode, so that if you have notes that refer to the shooting time, your new multiclip timecode will correspond. I can't see any reason for modifying the aux timecode instead of the master but perhaps if I'm missing something David Bogie can elaborate.
If you have lots of places where there is no footage on v2 then Michael's suggestion will be a good way to keep your timeline visually representative of the footage available.

Be warned though, that if you didn't have the cameras referenced to each other or a common sync source then there's a high probability that your sync will drift over the performance, particularly at points where tapes were changed etc.
For this reason you'll want to visually check the sync on each v2 clip, even after you work out the initial (inevitable, unless your fingers are frame accurate) discrepancy.

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Answer 9

Jim Cookman

Level 7

23,447 points

Jan 2, 2009 10:07 AM in response to Brett Hickman

And for NEXT time: preset the two (or three or six) cameras to a starting timecode you like, Put the cameras all together as closely as you can, take ONE of the remotes that came with the cameras, and switch from record run to free run. That'll start all the cameras at once and give you locking code. And you know what? tape is the cheapest part of a multi-camera shoot, don't start and stop unless for tape changes or whatever.

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Answer 10

Jan 2, 2009 10:08 AM in response to J S Langham

I can't see any reason for modifying the aux timecode instead of the master but perhaps if I'm missing something David Bogie can elaborate.< </div>

I was suggesting a workaround for the lack of coherent source timecode. Rather than trying to modify it or use notes to indicate a specific offset, use the aux feature to roughly sync up. The audio track is probably going to be the only reliable timecode track, so, once b-roll is synced to the audio, aux timecode can be set quite accurately. I'm not sure if aux can be used as the sync source when multiclipping but razorblading the common start points of the clips i easy enough.

Lots of helpful suggestions here for hacking a non-referenced multicamera shoot. I think the upshot of this thread is we've dealt with missing or bad code for ten years using simple and efficient techniques. FCP's Multiclip is not necessarily a solution because of its complexities.

bogiesan

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Answer 11

Jan 2, 2009 10:09 AM in response to Jim Cookman

And for NEXT time: < </div>

I also suggest a resync party and group hug at every tape change.

bogiesan

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Answer 12

Jan 2, 2009 1:09 PM in response to Jim Cookman

That's essentially what we did, except for the "don't start/stop part".. the b-roll camera that was roaming was starting and stopping as necessary.. The steady wide-angle camera was immobile and tied into the soundboard. All these suggestions sound like they might work.. But it will likely be headache no matter what.. Next time I plan on no stopping/starting at all. 🙂

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Answer 13

Jan 2, 2009 1:11 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

Michael Grenadier wrote:
Here's the way I work. I create a sequence with everything synched up with different angles on different video tracks. Every time there is a gap in one video track, I blade all other tracks. This creates vertical sections that can be turned into individual multiclips. I then select all the clips in an individual vertical section and drag all these clips to a new folder in the browser (keeping each section in it's own bin, just makes things neater). Each of the resultant clips will have the correct in and out points that you need to create a multiclip. I then edit all the multiclips into a new sequence and "switch" away.

I do think your method could be a good work around.. Can you give me a few more details with regard to blading the other tracks and placing them in their own bins? Thanks in advance for all your help. Luckily the camera guys were pretty solid so there should be lots of usable footage.

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Answer 14

Jan 2, 2009 1:36 PM in response to Brett Hickman

Brett, why don't you create a sequence with everything lined up and xport an xml of the sequence and email it to me (my email is in my profile). I'll download it and then we can talk on the phone and walk thru the process. I don't need the associated media. We'll see right away whether there are any areas of confusion.

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Answer 15

dedkoff

Level 1

0 points

Jan 4, 2009 2:31 PM in response to Brett Hickman

Hey, boys, what if to select clips from one camera and apply to them *Multiclip sequence* (by timecode), and then is it simple to send sequence to *Media Manager*? Thus less letters would have to be written ))

Images here - http://www.dedkoff.com/blog/2009/01/final-cut-pro-free-run.html

And, yes, I am sorry for my beautiful English, I all the same from Ukraine ))

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