Previous 1 2 Next 27 Replies Latest reply: Jan 26, 2009 4:00 PM by John Galt
John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (41,365 points)
I posted this in the Windows Compatibility forum, but I think it's misplaced.

I need a serious guru here... someone versed in AppleTalk and Windows XP and maybe CUPS.

My workhorse laser printer is an old HP LaserJet 4MP, circa 1992. Nevertheless it works fine and I want to keep it that way. It's an Appletalk printer which means it only speaks Appletalk. It's connected to my wireless home network via an AsanteTalk bridge. It prints about 4 pages per minute (wow).

If you want to add this printer in OS X, it's easy: it simply shows up as both a shared printer and an Appletalk printer in System Preferences > Print and Fax. Select it and that's pretty much all I need to do. Obviously I've been using this printer since System 7 using its built-in drivers. No other drive software was ever necessary. Like everything Apple, it just works.

I'd like to be able to use this printer from my employer-supplied Windows XP laptop. I'm not well versed in Windows, but I've been able to muddle through setting up networked printers in the past. But I can't seem to find this printer using Window's "add printer" thing.

I've tried entering the URI for this printer which CUPS reports is pap://*/HP%20LaserJet%204MP/LaserWriter. I've tried underscores and spaces instead of %20 but Windows can't find the printer.

Even after getting Windows to recognize the printer I suppose it would only print gibberish unless I could find a way for Windows to speak Appletalk, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Any insight appreciated. Yes I know I can buy a brand new wireless printer for less than a replacement toner cartridge; I'm more motivated by geekdom here.

Next I'll tell you about my Appletalk Imagewriter II. It still works too.

PB G4 Ti 1 GHz  PB G4 17" 1.33 GHz  iMac DV SE  iMac rev D , Mac OS X (10.4.11),  iPod mini  iPod Shuffle  Appletalk printers  24 years Apple!
  • Jan Hedlund Level 6 Level 6 (9,440 points)
    Hi,

    Grant Bennet-Alder is the expert regarding these matters.

    In the meantime, just a question.

    It's an Appletalk printer which means it only speaks Appletalk.


    This document and the specifications seem to indicate that the LaserJet 4MP has a parallel and a serial port in addition to LocalTalk. Is this not true for your printer?

    I understand that you wish to use the printer in connection with your existing wireless network. With a parallel port, and if the AsanteTalk bridge (and the AppleTalk protocol) is the problem, it may be possible to find an alternative via a (TCP/IP) print server. As a temporary solution, you should at least be able to print via cable from the laptop PC (through a USB-to-parallel adapter, if necessary).

    Jan
  • John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (41,365 points)
    Yes, the 4MP has serial and parallel ports. Unfortunately my HP laptop, being an advanced computer, has neither. It's the first PC I've used without one. I can't seem to find a floppy disk drive either (but there is a phone modem).

    My motivation is to somehow find my printer using Windows. There must be a way. Who is this Grant-Bennet Adler of whom you speak?
  • Jan Hedlund Level 6 Level 6 (9,440 points)
    You could try a USB-to-parallel adapter (can be found in most computer stores), with the printer directly connected to the laptop. At least in a Swedish Windows XP, the HP LaserJet 4MP is mentioned under the Add Printer Wizard (local printer).

    According to this document, the AsanteTalk cannot process TCP/IP. PC support for AppleTalk is very limited (and not available in Windows XP). There are Ethernet print servers (with a parallel port) that may be of interest in this case.

    Grant Bennet-Alder is one of the regulars here.

    Jan
  • John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (41,365 points)
    Thank for the FAQ Jan, If the AsanteTalk can't pass TCP/IP packets I guess I'm out of luck.

    An Ethernet to parallel print server might be an option, but I suppose then I can't print from OS X???
  • Stuart Hazeldine Level 3 Level 3 (600 points)
    The USB to parrallel cable will work just find if you don't mind plugging in the laptop to the printer when required. If you want to modify Win XP to be able to print to an AppleTalk printer follow the instructions below.

    "To install AppleTalk protocol to Windows XP
    Required files: (Get them from any system running Windows 2000 Professional or Server)
    netatlk.inf, sfmatalk.sys, sfmmon.dll, sfmatmsg.dll, sfmwshat.dll, sfmpsprt.dll
    If they can not be found you need to unhide hidden and system files.
    Copy the files to their respective places:

    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\INF\netatlk.inf
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\sfmatalk.sys
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\sfmatmsg.dll
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\sfmmon.dll
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\sfmwshat.dll
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\SPOOL\PRTPROCS\W32X86\sfmpsprt.dll

    AppleTalk Protocol should now be available under the list of Protocols you can add in Network Connections - Local Area Connections Properties

    This is only good using AppleTalk printers attached to the network. The AppleTalk printer will show up, if it's turned on, under Add Printer-Local printer attached to this computer - create a new port - AppleTalk Printing devices.
    For more info see: http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/s agadd_appletalkport.mspx (you do not need to capture the port for the printer to work)

    If you can not get access to these files, make your email address visable in your user profile and I will send them to you."
  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 9 Level 9 (53,085 points)
    Although AppleTalk-over-Ethernet uses the Ethernet cabling, it does not use IP protocol, and does not make use of IP addresses. So your search for an IP Address for this AppleTalk printer will not be fruitful.

    If you have a Mac OS X Server available, you can create a Windows-accessible Print Queue on the Server.

    Like many Server features, this feature is also available on "regular" Mac OS X. This Queue can then be accessed via Windows protocols, such as SMB/CIFS, provided you use a Postscript printer driver to print on the Windows machine. A Print Queue for this printer is created on the OS X Mac, and it will automatically convert the print images from SMB and Postscript to the printer's native protocol (AppleTalk-over-Ethernet, in this case -- provided the Printer Driver is already installed and working on the OS X Mac).

    The Queue is created on the Mac using
    System Preferences > Print and Fax > Sharing

    MH1770- Mac OS X 10.4 Help: Sharing your printer with Windows users

    This Printer-Sharing/Print-Queing service is not available in OS 9. I agree with Jan that your best bet on a network without a Mac OS X Server or Computer would be to add an HP Print Server card to your printer to make it a true IP/Ethernet Printer. It could then be accessed by IP protocol using LPR/LPD printing.

    All the really old documentation I tried to chase down suggested you install a LocalTalk-PC card in your Windows machine, but they all seem to pre-date Windows XP.

    Message was edited by: Grant Bennet-Alder
  • Jan Hedlund Level 6 Level 6 (9,440 points)
    If the AsanteTalk can't pass TCP/IP packets I guess I'm out of luck.


    On the other hand, IP packets would probably not be of much use at the LocalTalk port of the printer anyway. The main problem with the AsanteTalk bridge would concern the (in)ability of the Windows XP side to handle the AppleTalk protocol. Since I am not really familiar with the possibilities of said bridge, others will have to provide you with the necessary information.

    An Ethernet to parallel print server might be an option, but I suppose then I can't print from OS X???


    If you look at the specifications for typical Ethernet print server devices (with a parallel port), you will notice that they have support for various protocols. With appropriate drivers, printing from both Mac OS X and Windows should be possible.

    Jan
  • John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (41,365 points)
    Stuart Hazeldine wrote:
    If you can not get access to these files, make your email address visable in your user profile and I will send them to you.

    Done!

    From the cryptic names they sound like something necessary for Appletalk. I also confirmed I don't have those files installed. This sounds encouraging.

    To install AppleTalk protocol to Windows XP
    Required files: (Get them from any system running Windows 2000 Professional or Server)
    netatlk.inf, sfmatalk.sys, sfmmon.dll, sfmatmsg.dll, sfmwshat.dll, sfmpsprt.dll
    If they can not be found you need to unhide hidden and system files.
    Copy the files to their respective places:

    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\INF\netatlk.inf
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\sfmatalk.sys
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\sfmatmsg.dll
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\sfmmon.dll
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\sfmwshat.dll
    C:WINDOWS(WINNT)\SYSTEM32\SPOOL\PRTPROCS\W32X86\sfmpsprt.dll


    The Appletalk printer is connected to my network and any Apple computer can print to it. Next step is how to find it with Windows. It sounds like that won't be possible with my existing AsanteTalk bridge; do you agree?

    Many thanks. I'll let you know!
  • John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (41,365 points)
    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I don't have OS X Server, but sharing the printer might be a useful option.

    I'm a bit mystified about Bonjour for Windows. My Windows computer says it's installed, but there's no sign of its existence and I'm not sure where to look. When using Windows "add a printer", there's no option to discover Bonjour printers like there is in OS X.

    The only printer I've successfully added to my Windows computer is an HP inkjet, which worked some magic by installing a multitude of files from its install CD. It took a long time. Adding a printer in Windows seems to be a major ordeal.
  • Stuart Hazeldine Level 3 Level 3 (600 points)
    You don't need to make any changes to your printer setup to make this work. I would recommend that you first try to get the laptop printing via connecting an Ethernet cable to your router before trying to setup wireless printing.
    (I am getting mail returned if I try and send anything to the email address that you have listed)
  • John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (41,365 points)
    Stuart Hazeldine wrote:
    (I am getting mail returned if I try and send anything to the email address that you have listed)

    I am sorry about that; it's a valid address, I get my forum subscriptions sent to it. I checked Google and it says I have no spam.

    I sent you an email directly from Google so hopefully that will work. Perhaps it has an automatic whitelist that will fix things.
  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 9 Level 9 (53,085 points)
    "I don't have OS X Server, but sharing the printer might be a useful option."


    Server is where this Industrial-Strength software came from, and an indication of it power and capability. I want to be sure I was clear that Server is NOT required -- the Printer Sharing, Queue creation, and Protocol Translation capability is also available in non-server Mac OS X.

    One downside of setting it up this way is that you cannot print from your Windows machine unless your Mac OS X Mac is on and awake.
  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 9 Level 9 (53,085 points)
    You appear to use Internet Explorer or the Bonjour Printer Wizard with Bonjour for Windows. There is a description in this article with a link to download the latest version:

    http://support.apple.com/downloads/BonjourforWindows

    Message was edited by: Grant Bennet-Alder
  • John Galt Level 8 Level 8 (41,365 points)
    Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I've enabled printer sharing, but as I recall that enables one to share a printer that's directly connected to the print server. That's a possibility, but my ultimate goal is to use the printer in its present network configuration.

    I've installed the Windows AppleTalk files courtesy of Mr. Hazeldine above. Since I don't have a USB to parallel adapter, I think the next step ought to be to connect the printer to my computer via Ethernet and the AsanteTalk bridge to its Localtalk interface.

    As much as I know about networking in OS X, it certainly seems to me that networking in Windows is "a bag of hurt" as Mr Jobs would put it.
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