Sony XDCAM EX import Workflow

As a new (and delighted - what a picture!) EX3 owner I am trying to decide on the best work flow which incorporates the ability to re-join split clips on import.

Firstly, here's my understanding - log and transfer seems to create QT clips placed into your capture scratch folder. All great but it does not re-join split clips or clips which bridge two cards - not great for multiclip editing as I discovered to my cost last week.

So I've tried copying the clips using the XDCam browser which Sony's XDCam workflow seems to suggest will automatically cause them to re-join. It looks like they have in the browser but log and transfer in FCP still sees them as a split clip at the crossover point between the two cards.

The latter way will also double the import time won't it? Once to copy the card and again to L&T into FCP.

I know I must be getting something wrong somewhere. Anyone had any more success please?

Regards
Richard

(and sorry to be extending a question in a thread rather than answering, but it seems relevnet to the original question)

Big Mac!, Mac OS X (10.5.6)

Posted on Jan 13, 2009 2:44 PM

Reply
14 replies

Jan 13, 2009 4:04 PM in response to Richard Critchlow1

If you have spanned a clip over 2 cards then you need to use the XD Cam Transfer utility (2.8), or the Sony Clip Browser utility.
http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowContent.action?logicalname=ssw-bc-xdcamex-080 7&site=bizenGB

You need to copy both of the card's BPAV folder into there own parent folders and direct the utility to see both of them, then the utility will join them together during the wrap to .mov

Good Luck
Z1

Jan 14, 2009 1:47 AM in response to Z1User

Hi Z1
Thanks for this. Firstly, the tranfer application v2.8.0 you pointed me to is different to the log and transfer and clip browser software I had been using....and it seems much better so thank you. I can now use the import function in FCP which hadn't been available before.

I'm now much clearer on how I can import clips into a single capture scratch folder which I can then copy to a second drive as a backup.

I'm still struggling a little with split clips. Do I assume that if I select the clip, rather than any of the subclips, it will be treated imported as a single clip.

If that's the case, and I rename an incomplete clip as it's imported, does it still know that's it's importing part 2 of a split clip and rename that and add it to the part 1 clip?? I've been trying to get theis right and have failed so far.

All of this assumes I'll archive the mov files rather than the BPAV files off the card. I'd rather work that way round as I can make a copy after import rather than before which will speed up the workflow. Are there any problems with archiving the mov files over the BPAV folder? I guess compatability if I wanted to take the material to PC but that's unlikely for me.

Regards
Richard

Jan 14, 2009 11:32 AM in response to Richard Critchlow1

A little update for those who may find it helpful:

The utililty which Z1User recommends is much better than log and transfer/clip browser and when you understand how it works, seems quite straightforward. There are many ways it can create extra folders to help/confuse but when you've checked the right boxes in the preferences and set the directory for it to download to, it performs like a conventional log and capture - just at 3 times the speed.

I've also used the Clip Browser to re-assemble a clip which spans two cards. It seems to work by having to copy the XDCAM file structure from both cards to the same folder on your mac. i.e. not converting it QT yet. Doing this causes it to re-link the clip. You can then use the import setting in FCP to import the complete clip into FCP. The drawback is that it takes twice as long. First a chunk of time to copy the XDCam files from two, or more, cards into one folder. Then another similar chunk of time to export the clip in FCP. If anybody knows of another, ideally quicker solution, I'd be really keen to hear it. Until then, unless it's absolutely unavoidable as it was for me last week, I won't let it split a clip accross two cards.

Richard

Jan 14, 2009 12:23 PM in response to Richard Critchlow1

Clip Browser is an easy way to joint spanned clips, you will need to dump one card onto a drive and the other can stay on the card, then use the 2 directories to open each BPAV folder and drag the spanned clip from the card over to the directory with the first half of the clip and it will copy the clip into the first BPAV folder that lives on the drive. Then open XD Can Transfer and make the .mov, it will joint them together as one clip.

Tapeless workflows require a large amount of time to manage the data, one solution to save time is the MxR/SDHC and archive these cards like tape. Transcend 16 gig Class 6 cards are $26.99, thats an hour of HQ 35Mbps video.
http://e-films.com.au/
http://www.efilms.com.au/streams/SDHCExpress.wmv

Jan 14, 2009 12:48 PM in response to Z1User

That makes sense, but you still have to copy a card first?

I take your point about the time to manage the data. Time isn't my worry at the moment - I never have enough of that! My worry is more about getting it right and not losing anything. I'm sure speed will come with experience! And after 20 years of working with tape very comfortably - I'm treading this path very carefully with backup drive close at hand!

Thanks for the link to the cards. I think I'll stick to a second HD for archiving for now. I may in time consider one of the XDCam disc recorders?

Thanks for you help - much appreciated.

Jan 14, 2009 1:00 PM in response to Richard Critchlow1

"That makes sense, but you still have to copy a card first?"

No, you leave the original files on the SDHC card forever and all you need to do is read the card to make the .mov files for editing, (this is like coping because you are creating another file) and it would save you a lot of time. You wouldn't need to copy the original raw EX files to a hard drive at all. If you count the hours of data management the SDHC archive may just pencil out for some. I'm sure these cards will get even cheaper.
You could just record onto the SDHC then use the XD cam Transfer utility to re-wrap to .mov and never copy the original files to a hard drive.

Jan 14, 2009 1:13 PM in response to Z1User

I think we're at cross purposes. You suggestion for how to join a split clip still require you to copy one of the cards?

Your second point about the SDHC cards also makes sense - view them like tapes. I'm just nervous about using something 'unapproved' this soon into a new workflow but I also hate the cost of the SxS cards. Do they act like SxS? Maybe I'll be persuaded in time?

Regards
Richard

Jan 14, 2009 10:05 PM in response to Richard Critchlow1

I guess I need to spend more time reading these posts before I post back. Let me try to clean this up, You love the tapeless camera, and you want to just archive quicktime files in the least amount of time. And you figured out how to joint spanned clips but it takes too long.

First off the EX tapeless workflow is no different than the DVC Pro P2 workflow, and most people preserve or archive the original files created by both systems as you should consider. The original EX files can be converted to PC or Apple formats very quickly and you may have a client that needs to use the files for something other than Final Cut at a later date.

Then you asked about reducing the time it takes to download both or at least one of the cards to joint spanned clips. Well, you must pay the piper for not having to tell your client you need to stop and change a tape as you crossed the recording of the clip to the next card. Joining a spanned clip takes what it takes to mate them up, but you didn't lose the shot as with tape you would have stopped at an hour. You could conceivably never stop rolling with a tapeless system.

I think you may have said you will try an avoid cross card clips. My point to try and reduce your download time was meant for non spanned card clips as I understand time is money. Sorry if I confused you.

I honestly don't think of dragging and dropping files is as much work as capturing, it requires no supervision like capturing, however it does take some time and if you are sitting there waiting just for this to happen then it may take more time than capturing to first copy the original files then re-wrap them into quicktime files to edit with, not to mention coping these original files to a second drive for backup or worse yet burning these files to SD DVD's. Your 20 years of tape workflow may take some time to adjust to this tapeless file managing world we now live in.

Beyond all that you asked about Sony has licensed the EX codec to JVC and they may have what you are looking for, they are using the Mpeg-2 (HQ 35Mbps) codec but they are wrapping the original file to quicktime .mov (as an option) from the start while using SDHC media, so you may consider the MxR/SDHC as unapproved but it is really out there and working well for many EX users. Here is your tape equivalent = MxR/SDHC

Another solution for you to reduce time and get original quicktime files would be to invest into the Convergent Design Flash XDR (or the Nano Flash that is coming soon). This is a HD-SDI recorder that allows you to choose the compression you desire that goes way beyond the limits of the camera manufactures, which allows you to take full advantage of the amazing cmos exmor sensors in your ex camera choosing compression levels from blueray to HDV to EX Cam HD 50Mbbps 4:2:2 to 100Mbps all i-frame with near uncompressed quality, using 32 gig CF cards that are under $80 a piece.

FYI There aren't to many people on this forum that care to help XD cam users with questions that are really specific to Sony's EX workflow system so you may want to check out the Creative Cow or DV Info if Final Cut isn't a part of the question. I hope I helped you find a solution to your question and I was at least helpful.

Z1

Jan 15, 2009 5:52 PM in response to Z1User

Hi There,
I've said before that these forums are an amazing resource. Purely because of the people who contribute to them and here's a great example of that. I'm incredibly grateful for your help as I embark on a route it sounds like you've been down for a while.

I think I now have a plan to get me started properly. I plan to copy the BPAV folders to an external hard drive, then import the .mov files to my media drives so I have the raw date backed up and the working data on a separate drive.

We start a two week shoot on Monday so I'll have to do this process after every night's shoot. Do you ever get used to pressing format I wonder? (Talking of which, can you format the disc in the external drive?)

Thanks again for all the helpful advice. I'm very grateful,
Regards
Richard

Jan 18, 2009 11:55 AM in response to Z1User

That makes sense. What good old clips spanning two cards? Will they get recognised if I navigate to the directory containing all the card/day folders in the browser?

Also, and this is really for a different post possibly, but have you any advice for compressing to MPEG2 SD DVDs or MP4 H264 for the web. Read lots about problems but without a clear solution.

We use Sorenson Squeeze which I need to upgrade from 4.5 to 5 to give me access to H264 encoding. I've got rubbish results so far using compressor. Squeeze seems to have an issue with vertical lines on a moving shot - same as it does converting HDV to SD.

Regards
Richard

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Sony XDCAM EX import Workflow

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