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Level 1

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iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates

As most of us who have bought the iPod Photo already know, the sound quality IS FLAWED. The distorsion (or background crackling) of high frequency/high output sound (such as piano, high output electric guitar & some deep bass output - however the vocals seem to be fine) is there and something needs to be done about it. Some good examples of where this kind of problem occurs, from what I have found are: Radiohead (most of the OK Computer album), The Hives (the iPod Photo cannot seem to cope with their loud distorted guitar style & very high output), and Incubus (a lot of Morning View). Some people who are still using the tinny, lacklustre stock earbuds, or just don't listen to their music carefully enough, or listen niavely, may still not recognise this.

I refuse to let this issue drop, as I have spent good money on what should be, a technically flawless sound player. I do like this player though (mine is 60GB). The features are good, the photo element is excellent, the 60GB storage is unrivalled, but the main function of the player, to play music, is not good for this one issue. It is so disappointing considering Apple have obviously overlooked this issue (or simply let it slip by thinking nobody would notice), for what is otherwise an excellent piece of equipment.

I record all my music on iTunes, using the MP3 encoder. Some people think the MP3 encoder in iTunes is poor, but it is as good as most. It is all ripped at 224kbps VBR. I use Shure E2c earphones, which are also excellent, and by far the best value for money if you're looking for a warm tone & deep bass in your sound. The step up in price to the Shure E3c might be worth it if you prefer a more detailed, but possibly colder sound.

All that considered, there is absolutely no reason why the sound should be poor on my iPod Photo (when it is fine on the iPod Mini, and using Audio software on my PC), apart from there being a hardware/software glitch. There simply must be. Either that, or something in the sound has been compromised to accomodate the photo elements or colour screen.

I have sent an e-mail to Apple regarding all this, and will hopefully hear from them soon about what is going to be done to resolve this. I will keep this post updated as and when I hear news from them. I also have a case number in motion with their customer services department, and they cannot ignore this anymore.

Something must be done! Redeem yourselves, Apple!

Posted on Apr 10, 2005 10:29 PM

348 replies

May 16, 2005 3:04 PM in response to Johnny Wood

After having posted a lot of messages on a previous thread regarding the flawed sound quality of the iPod Photo, I have recently been contacted by Apple via email regarding the sound issues with the iPod Photo. It was fairly standard, questions about which earphones I use, which music, type of decoding, etc. and asked to send them a sample of music. Has anyone else been contacted? At the least it seems to indicate that someone at Apple is finally taking this issue serious, which is hopeful. I am still considering to buy another 40GB non-Photo Pod (currently still available from HP) as a backup, should my current 40GB iPod go dead or get lost. I would hate to switch to a 20GB to get the same sound quality I have now.

I don't know what I am more upset about, the flawed sound quality of the Photo iPod or the fact that Apple does not give you an equal choice between Photo or non-Photo in a desperately needed 60GB upgrade (classical music takes up a lot of space).

May 17, 2005 6:34 AM in response to Johnny Wood

Well, it took two months from the first post of this problem ( Internetdude 01, "Ipod Photo bad music quality?", 10:53pm Mar 15, 2005 CDT)
but as you can see by the previous post by Klaus, Apple has finally (almost) acknowledged that there IS a problem with the iPod photos that result in very distorted sound. Please send them a good example of a file that easily reveals the problem, Klaus, so that we can perhaps finally get some resolution on this problem.

As Klaus inquired, has anyone else been contacted by Apple regarding this problem?

May 17, 2005 7:40 PM in response to Sallie Hammond

[to undisclosed recipients]
[received on May 4, 2005]

This is regarding your post to Apple Discussions about sound quality with your iPod photo. Could you please send me a sample of a file that produces the issue for you and let me know the following information.

1) Are you playing out of line-out or the headphone jack?
2) At what volume level are you playing the song(s)?
3) Are you using an EQ setting? If yes, which one?
4) Are you using SoundCheck?
5) What file types are you using on your iPod photo? AAC/M4P/MP3/ALAC/Wave/Aiff
6) What version of iPod photo software are you using?
7) Are you using the Apple supplied earbuds? If not, what brand and model are you using?

I will forward the info to our engineers to look into.

Thanks,
Gayle

Gayle B.
Technical Support Engineer
Apple Discussions

May 18, 2005 4:01 AM in response to Klaus Ottmann

as an avid "i don't hear any problem" speaker, who has since changed their mind to "there is a very slight problem, that i have only been able to isolate on one track, but it bugs me", i'll complete the questionnaire incase it is any use;

1) Headphone jack
2) Varies, but the problem was noticeable across the whole register
3) No EQ
4) No Soundcheck
5) First tried Apple Loseless, then WAV, AAC192, AAC128 and MP3 320 - all on the same track.
6) 1.1
7) Grado SR80

the track in question was a solo piano piece, the original lossless file of which was posted on one of these "bad sound quality" discussions, i can dig it up if anyone wants it.

May 18, 2005 12:30 PM in response to Alistair Hart

hi all

just done some tests on my ipod photo 60G which also has a sound quality issue on the h/phone output

1 - in-ear and bud headphones produce distortion on playback with various volume settings (eq = off)
2 - same headphone output connected to high quality mixer does not produce distortion

( tests done using a high quality aiff file )

this implies that, for certain impedance loads (eg headphones), there is a sound distortion problem on the ipod photo which shouldn't be there - my son's ipod (not photo) doesn't produce these problems using the same headphones / sound files

DenZ

Level 2

250 points

May 18, 2005 12:56 PM in response to Andy Visser

Apple has also contacted me about the audio defect. I sent an MP3 at VBR ~200kbps, a piano solo that sounded great through the PC's headphone jack distorted through the ipod photo.

I hope Apple focuses all their attention on this problem before moving on to develop the next generation ipod..

May 19, 2005 6:18 PM in response to Johnny Wood

The problem that I have experienced so far with my ipod photo 30g is that there is distortion only select albums/songs.....there is no common denominator with these songs...ranging from softer folk rock/jazz to "loud" rock....no eq, aac encoded, 192.....this isn't a volume issue with apple stock ear buds...this is simply distortion on any volume. I have tried reloading the songs, doing volume adjusts.....with no luck...I am very disappointed that the audio is so poor. Please help us Apple!!!
Jeff

May 19, 2005 8:59 PM in response to Johnny Wood

Im also having sound quality issues. there is SIGNIFICANT distortion on hard rock and metal tracks using my iPod photo 30 gig. ive had it for about 2 months now, and am very concerned with the sound quality. it mostly distorts on very bass heavy tracks, but it also distorts soft piano music as well.

1. im using the headphone jack
2. i play the songs with the volume slider about half way
3. i use various EQ settings, but the ones i use most are "hip hop", "rock", and "bass booster".
4. no soundcheck, because im not sure what it does.
5. i use apple lossless and AAC 128kbps encodings.
6. i believe im using 1.0 software, because for some reason, i cant upgrade to 1.1, it only tells me i have the most up to date software.
7. im not using the apple earbud headphones, im using a set of bose triport headphones.

May 19, 2005 10:18 PM in response to Johnny Wood

If you're using ANY EQ settings you can get distortion because some freqs are amped above the volume threshold. This has been the case for years, and has nothing to do with the problem discussed in this topic.

If you want to use EQs, you should lower the Volume Adjustment of the track in iTunes and see if that helps when you listen on the pod...in general, Apple could choose to have a much better algorithm that would eliminate this, but they haven't seen it as a priority.

May 20, 2005 2:37 AM in response to Gary Bredendick

I had the same problem updating my iPod Photo 40gb to software version 1.1!
The problem probably lies in the version of 'iPod Updater' which you may be using. i was using 'iPod Updater 2004-something'(the one that came on CD with my ipod). If you go to www.apple.../support/downloads, there is a new version of 'iPod Updater' released (2005-03-23). Tthat seems to do the trick.

As for sound Quality - mine hasn't shown any sound defects, but recently it stopped updating the photos! anyone else experiencing this?

May 21, 2005 6:10 AM in response to Johnny Wood

Any news on this?

I agree about the sound quality of the 60Gb iPod Photo - it's often appalling. The product is obviosuly defective. I'm playing the identical files (224KB/s or Apple Lossless) and using the same headphones (Etymotic ER4) as on my old 20GB where it all sounded great, but on the Ipod photo there's fuzz distortion all over the place.

May 27, 2005 2:07 AM in response to Ed Keohane

You may want to look at this thread:
Internetdude 01, "Ipod Photo bad music quality?", 10:53pm Mar 15, 2005 CDT

It is related to headphone impedance it appears (I've tested it also).

Whic ER4 do you have? The ER4p has low impedance (27 ohm), but you can actually get a line impedance to turn them into 4s (100ohm). Maybe a bit hard for the ipod to drive 100 ohm though.
http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4-acc.asp - the ER4P-24

May 27, 2005 4:14 AM in response to Michael Oberhardt

I think it will be harder to drive the 100ohm headphones, but I guess any solution is better than nothing.

I am going to let my bitter side out in the open for a bit. Why is it that I have to buy a NEW set of headphones to get the sound quality that I want in an expensive mp3 player? Haven't I spent my hard earn money on a so-call high-end player... why should I need to spend more money on a pair of headphones and a headphone amp to make it sound decent?

I am done venting. One thing that I am glad about is that ipod owners are sharing information and finding possible solutions. Perhaps doing a better job than apple ever will. Of course I will insert my foot in my mouth if they come out with a fix tomorrow, but hey, that's all we ask for in the first place!!!! Until next time...

May 27, 2005 11:39 PM in response to Arthur Hsu

I hear you. I mean we have the iPod top-of-the-line, the flagship model, but we get stuck with the worst flaw. And have apple done anything? What's more, people shoulw be made aware of it. I wasted money buying a set of phones that are worthless to me and I can't even resell due to their problem. They should be making customers and ipod earphone manufacturers aware of this so they can at least advise people with the appropriate disclaimers.

There is apparently a flaw with other ipods with low frequency rolloff for low impedance phones. I emailed etymotic about the photo problem, and they are looking into it, but they said they were aware, and had made apple engineers aware of a problem. To quote:

"The coupling capacitor on the regular iPod and original iPod mini is a low enough value to cause low frequency roll-off for impedances less than 100 ohms. We are aware of it and brought it to Apples attention several years
ago. The headphones supplied by Apple are 32 ohms. The ER-4P earphones are 27 ohms, and the ER-6i earphones are 16 ohms. This will cause a roll-off of the low frequencies, but shouldn't cause audible distortion in music. Part of the reason for the "extra bass" in the ER-6i is to make up
for this low frequency roll-off."

Interesting to know that the 6i actually has a non linear response to cater for this flaw. I did directly ask them if the ER4S (100 ohm) can be driven by the ipod with decent sound levels and am waiting on an answer. If so - you could definitely get that Etymotic ER4P-24 impedance convertor to give you much better results. It'd also give you a dead flat response too.

May 31, 2005 2:01 PM in response to Johnny Wood

I've started to notice this problem as my ears get better accustomed to listening to music all the time again:

1) Are you playing out of line-out or the headphone jack?
Headphone.

2) At what volume level are you playing the song(s)?
Various.

3) Are you using an EQ setting? If yes, which one?
None. EQ makes it worse.

4) Are you using SoundCheck?
I've tried it. Makes no difference.

5) What file types are you using on your iPod photo? AAC/M4P/MP3/ALAC/Wave/Aiff

AAC 256 (most), 224 and 128 (some)
MP3 128 through 320vbr (some)
ALAC a few. Yes, even ALAC has the problem.

6) What version of iPod photo software are you using?
1.1

7) Are you using the Apple supplied earbuds? If not, what brand and model are you using?
Yes and also Grado SR-80.

iPod Photo: Poor Sound Quality - Updates