Why doesn't iMovie use ProRes 422 or native instead of AIC

if you want those features you can have them with Apple's FCS2 at $1200 a pop.

I understand that the iMovie and FCP teams at Apple have been, hitherto, completely independent.

FCP was bought in - under a different original name - and tweaked from its original incarnation before being offered as 'Final Cut Pro' by Apple. See the section marked " History" in this Wikipedia article.

iMovie, however, was written long ago to Steve Jobs' specifications by Glenn Reid as a simple video editor for amateurs.

The ProRes codec appears to have been created separately from the Apple Intermediate Codec of iMovie ..probably because of different programmers' responsibilities for the separate programs ..although, under the 'Terms of Use', we're not supposed to speculate here in Apple Discussions.

HDV and AVCHD, being extremely 'compressed' methods of storing video, similar to the MPEG-2 format used for squeezing long movies onto small DVDs, cannot be edited 'frame-accurately' directly, as most of the video frames rely on data stored in other frames for their content. In other words, the 1st frame of fifteen frames contains a whole frame's worth of data, but the next 14 contain only differences between the first frame of a group and the subsequent frames.

So there needs to be a method to 'unscramble' or extract the data from the next few frames after the first of each group, in order to reconstitute the rest of the frames for editing them.

AIC is the method used in iMovie. ProRes is the method chosen for FCP.

It's interesting, though, that Randy Ubillos, now 'Chief Architect - Video Applications' at Apple, and the "onlie true begetter" of what later became Final Cut Pro, was the man who demonstrated iMovie '09 at last month's MacWorld Keynote. So if Randy's on hand to explain how to use iMovie, and created the new-style iMovie, then maybe we'll see some more convergence occur. (..iMovie has already taken on board FCP's "instant rendering", so that we no longer have to wait for transitions to be rendered within iMovie, but can see the results immediately. iMovie's real "behind the scenes" rendering now takes place during export, after after editing's finished..)

Obviously only someone from the iMovie group would be able to answer all of these questions but we may be able to gather some insights from the community to get a better picture.
The only thing obvious to me is that only Apple knows for sure and it is unlikely they will discuss their reasoning. Frankly, there is nothing keeping you from editing Apple ProRes 422 or Apple HDV files natively in iMovie '09 and I suspect the only thing preventing the native editing of AVCHD is the lack of an appropriate QT component to handle it.

*I suspect the only thing preventing the native editing of AVCHD is the lack of an appropriate QT component to handle it.*

I believe the real reason is that the codec is so computationally intensive that a fast OS and cpu are necessary for any native editing.

I have yet to see any NLE on either platform to handle native AVCHD editing in real time.

I believe the real reason is that the codec is so computationally intensive that a fast OS and cpu are necessary for any native editing.
That may well be the reason no such QT component is available. However, my main point was that iMovie '09 does edit both Apple HDV and Apple ProRes 422 if you have these components installed.

Ikester wrote:
.. Is it a licensing issue?

No.
prores422 and AIC are both Apple inventions/patents.

I assume, because AIC is the 'older' codec which tought the then new HDV standard to be used in a consumer app (iMovieHD aka vers5), 'age' is the only reason why iM prefers AIC and FC prores422..

.. I'm not sure what kind of "speculation" is frowned upon based on the Terms of Use. I hope I'm not discussing something inappropriate.

rumors, speculation and the 'politics' of Apple are excluded as topics on this board by ToU..
.. but we old followers like to share our.. 'thoughts'.. = we had forum members here with real inisights, but they don't participate anymore.. no, not because of intrvention of the Men in Black from Apple 😀
plus, if you have any real insights, you usually had signed a NDA long before ..

Message was edited by: Karsten Schlüter

It may be able to use the HDV file if it already exists but can it capture it directly over Firewire?
No, the default AIC codec is "programmed" into the application. It is up to the user to provide the codec and means of capture.

I think it's more of a strategic and commercial decision. ProRes codec is one of the privilege of using Final Cut Pro and Apple is not likely to open it up like Avid does with their comparable DNxHD codec. Even Final Cut Express uses AIC only and doesn't come with ProRes, so Apple probably thinks ProRes is an overkill for iMovie.

Jon Walker wrote:
iMovie '09 does edit both Apple HDV and Apple ProRes 422 if you have these components installed.

This is true. When I tested iMovie on a Mac with FCP, Movie was able to use ProRes quicktime movies without conversion and also export the project in ProRes. iMovie also could use Apple HDV movie (HDV data in .mov container) although it wasn't too smooth to use.

Ikester wrote:
In case anybody is interested, you can add HDV "native" files (technically not the native stream but a Quicktime wrapper) that have been captured through other means by creating a new Event from the File menu and then dragging and dropping the files onto the new Event.

Do you know how to put HDV data into a .mov container without using Final Cut Pro? I tried VLC's stream transcoding which allows you to just change container but the resulting mov file is only playable by VLC and not Quicktime.

1) The posting that long GOP is hard to edit -- hence the need for AIC -- is false.

FCP edits XDCAM HD and XDCAM EX and HDV in real-time -- NATIVELY. Typically many streams. It would be nice if this myth was not kept alive.

Moreover, iMovie 8/9 will edit long GOP MPEG-2 as long as it is in a .mov wrapper. I've been doing so for years. No need for import as AIC. So long GOP can be edited in real-time NATIVELY even in iM.

2) The point of AIC was to make MPEG-2 easier to edit on slower computers AND keep the codec MPEG-2. It was for use with HDV.

3) Of course this was before AVCHD. It would have been better had Apple chosen a DVC based codec -- like DVCPRO HD but supporting FullHD. (Apple used to allow DV to be used at 1920x1080.) The problem with AIC is one is mixing codecs.

4) If one has a camera that shoots H.264/AVC then these files CAN be imported without conversion to AIC. So long GOP H.264/AVC can be edited in real-time -- NATIVELY.

5) And, if you have FCP, you can edit ProRes 422 natively in real-time.