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KepiSW Author

Level 1

0 points

iTunes 8.1 breaks syncing with 2nd gen iPod shuffle

So, I downloaded iTunes 8.1 as soon as it came out as all the new features seemed pretty benign, and I've never had issues with any iTunes update going all the way back to 1.0. However, the 8.1 update rendered my 2nd gen shuffle no better than a $5 MP3 player.

Keeping in mind I use my shuffle primarily for listening to podcasts, here's the issues:

+1) dragging files to the iPod that already exist on the device+

8.0: pops a dialog warning that some of the items are already on the device and gives you the option to skip those ones and copy the rest. I use this all the time as I just do a select all and drag everything in my Podcasts list to the iPod to get new stuff onto it
8.1: it gladly copies the duplicates onto the iPod again

+2) order of podcasts when added to the iPod+

8.0: podcasts get put at the end but when you disconnect, they get moved to the beginning of the play order on the shuffle and are arranged in the same order as the sort set on your Podcasts list (in my case, ascending Date Released). This was great as all the podcasts would end up right at the beginning of the shuffle in the order I wanted
8.1: podcasts get put at the end and stay there, in whatever order they were in from the location I dragged them from (i.e. the literal order they appear in the Podcasts list. So while in 8.0 they'd be arranged in date order regardless of whether different podcast subscriptions were mixed together, in 8.1 they were placed into alphabetical podcast order, subsorted by date)

+3) automatic removal of deleted podcasts+

8.0: a podcast deleted from the Podcasts list that's also on the shuffle will immediately cause a sync event and remove it from the shuffle
8.1: no sync event, deleted podcast stays on the shuffle until manually removed

+4) ability to play songs from the shuffle in iTunes when the shuffle is connected+

8.0: double-clicking a song that's on the shuffle by selecting the device and then its Music tab, plays it (and also causes immediate and constant syncing, which is weird, but also expected)
8.1: double-clicking a song has no effect. Selecting a song and clicking iTunes' play button does nothing

The problems are occurring on my Mac Pro. I initially upgraded to iTunes 8.1 via Software Update, but tried reinstalling via the standalone installer. No luck. I also tried restoring the iPod to factory settings twice with no luck.

I also did some tests on my MacBook Pro which still had iTunes 8.0 on it. The same "correct" behaviour was encountered on the MBP. As soon as I upgraded to 8.1 via the downloaded installer, the same "incorrect/broken" behaviour was encountered as on the Mac Pro. I restored the iPod in iTunes 8.0 and 8.1 and that still didn't fix the behaviour when using it under 8.1. Additionally, on the MacBook Pro I removed the iTunes library and started with a fresh one just in case there was something funky with it.

Anyone else having these problems? I know at least one person whose 2nd gen shuffle works with 8.1 as it always had, so I'm not sure what's up with my shuffle.

Mac Pro 8 x 3.0GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.6), 6GB, 2.25TB, 2 x 24" Dell 2407WFP-HC

Posted on Mar 13, 2009 6:28 AM

73 replies

EJ__0101

Level 1

0 points

Apr 13, 2009 9:59 PM in response to grizzlehizzle

Make sure to send feedback to Apple. It is the only way to raise their awareness of this situation.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodshuffle.html

Apr 14, 2009 4:25 AM in response to KepiSW

Gizmodo has the story and references this thread:
http://bit.ly/8E5M4

Message was edited by: Tom Sheppard

Apr 14, 2009 4:37 AM in response to Tom Sheppard

There are some interesting insights in that link. It reminds me that it is much safer to use a PC than a Mac to use with your iPod. At least, with a PC, you know you can stick to old versions of iTunes for longer. With a Mac, you will inevitably get upgrades to iTunes when you upgrade your OS.

Funnily enough, this thread is a good illustration how important Apple makes it for the users to stick to Windows.

Apr 14, 2009 5:26 AM in response to Magnus Lewan

Magnus Lewan wrote:
Funnily enough, this thread is a good illustration how important Apple makes it for the users to stick to Windows.

Good point. The drop-dead deadline for Apple to fix this bug is the release of Snow Leopard as there will no doubt be a new version of iTunes to go along with it and you and I know that iTunes 8.0 won't be allowed to work in OS X 10.6. Of course, if they don't fix these serious bugs well before then, say by the end of April, we'll have to conclude that they don't think it's a problem. If they believe this is the way the Shuffle should work, then I'm going to need to use another way of putting music on the Shuffle. Fortunately, there are non-iTunes programs out there that do this.

Crippling a perfectly working older device won't motivate me to downgrade to the 3G shuffle, I'll just dig my heels in harder and vote with my tightly closed wallet.

Apr 21, 2009 8:05 PM in response to KepiSW

I can no longer drag songs from my iPod Shuffle (2G) playlist into a Library playlist. I have had numerous problems in the past in which my iPod shuffle playlist gets spontaneously reordered or deleted, so I always keep a back-up copy of the playlist in my iTunes library. Every time I update what's on my iPod, I drag the entire contents into a playlist called "iPod." Then, if anything happens, I can restore from there. Now, I can no longer do this. If I try to drag a song from my iPod, the green plus sign never appears and the song does not end up where I put it.

Also, I can no longer reorder the songs once they are on the iPod. Anything I add goes to the end of the playlist, and if I try to change that, iTunes tells me to wait while it "finds" my iPod, but then it never syncs. The song moves to where I put it on the screen but when I listen to the iPod, the newly added songs are at the end of the playlist.

Apr 26, 2009 1:07 AM in response to Tom Sheppard

Tom Sheppard wrote:
If they don't fix it in 8.1.1, then yes, we'll all have our answer, it was design intent and we can take our business elsewhere.

For the record, it was not fixed in 8.1.1.

Apr 26, 2009 6:10 AM in response to KepiSW

I looked into going back to 8.0, but I think that happened last fall, so I'd have to give up all the play data I have had since then. So I did go back to 8.1.

Seemed slightly better, but definitely not fixed (my issues are ever so slightly different than others, they include marking songs played that were NOT played).. and now that we see no attempt on Apple's part to address these issues, I think we can say it won't be fixed. This actually matches previous non-action-in-addressing-serious-bugs.

My previous experience is that serious issues that were attributed to the i{Pod software were left to stay that way because (I suspect) newer models were available.

FWIW, I have also had a number of other issues since day one with my 2G Shuffle (it will not play songs that work fine in iTunes or any of my previous Pods, it will occasionally start in the middle of it's [playlist rather than the top as I randomly create the playlist, but play in order). I've learned to l.ive with those bugs, but now with this one, I'm discouraged. And when I get that way, I vote with my wallet.

Apr 27, 2009 7:42 AM in response to Larry Duran

I finally took the plunge and DOWNGRADED to 8.0.2 and, of course, everything is back to normal and my Shuffle is working properly again. I was a HUGE hassle to downgrade, going back to the "previous library", reimporting nearly 100 songs, reorganizing all my iphone apps, losing all my playcounts, etc. This is the first time I have actually been so disgusted with an Apple update that I took a step backwards. All I'm really missing is the enhanced iPhone Remote functionality, which I don't miss all that much. And I much prefer how Party Shuffle works (didn't like iTunes DJ resorting glitches)! I'll stay with 8.0.2 for as long as I can. Will not upgrade iTunes again! Shame on you Steve Jobs and Apple!!!

Apr 30, 2009 9:56 AM in response to KepiSW

Boy, this is even more screwed up than I first thought. It is marking songs played that weren't and not marking songs that certainly did play. Songs I order near the top of the list aren't being played but are being marked as haveing been played...

I've been wondering why iTunes seems to be causing all these issues. Seems to me the issue is all about the list and order of songs that iTunes shows.... versus what is actually ON the shuffle. Far as I can tell, all the issues I've seen COULD be laid to the list in iTunes that simply isn't accurate.

I wonder, has ANYONE gotten any acknowledgment that Apple knows about the issues? Does ANYONE have any clues that all these issues are/will be addressed in the rumored 8.2 update?

Apr 30, 2009 2:53 PM in response to Riverside_Guy

Riverside_Guy wrote:
I wonder, has ANYONE gotten any acknowledgment that Apple knows about the issues? Does ANYONE have any clues that all these issues are/will be addressed in the rumored 8.2 update?

Apple definitely knows about it because myself, and probably many others, have entered feedback at:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodshuffle.html

I encourage you to do the same.

As for if the problems will be fixed in 8.2, only Apple knows and maybe some developers who downloaded the prerelease with the iPhone OS 3.0 beta 4.

I was expecting the problems to be fixed in 8.1.1 and was disgusted to see they were ignored. If the problems are not fixed in 8.2 then this will be a clear message from Apple that not only have they walked away from the 2G Shuffle but they have almost bricked it. Those of us who refuse to upgrade to the horrid 3G Shuffle, and discard the perfectly usable 2G Shuffle, will be required to remain on 8.0.

If that does happen, then you can also be assured that 8.2 or higher will be mandatory for OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard and that Apple will prevent 8.0 from running on 10.6. So factor in a new iPod replacement into the OS X upgrade cost.

Nothing would make me happier than for Apple to prove me wrong.

May 1, 2009 9:18 AM in response to Tom Sheppard

I hear you Tom and agree.

I had a very similar thing happen... with my 5.5G 80G Pod. For that one, the bug was in the Pod firmware and never got fixed, then the Classic was released and 100% killed ANY chance of it EVER getting fixed. Fortunately for me, it was relatively easy to go back 2 versions to get it working correctly.

But let me be clear about bugs... there are bugs that directly effect every single user, then there are bugs that only affect certain users. To me, they are equally bad... but my guess is that in Cupertino, it's only that which affects everyone that gets any attention. My HDD Pod bug would ONLY make a major difference to those who use a lot of "Smart" playlists. Don't use 'em, you'll never know.

With that in mind, I did some experimenting and thinking about what I see with my 2G Shuffle. It seems the issue is what the ordered list of songs the Shuffle thinks are not always the same as what iTunes seems to think. I'm pretty sure every instance of the bug occurs when I manually move songs in the playlist. So far, just autofilling and not re-ordering anything seems to work.

While I can't claim any experience coding, I have been involved enough in things like initial software design and supervising software development that I think I understand how software works better than most. I doubt this is a particularly subtle, hard to find bug. So I THINK it's simply not that hard or difficult to fix.

EVEN SO, it doesn't affect every single user, the hardware is out of production, a newer model exists so I am DOUBTFUL it will actually get addressed.

So go ahead Apple, fix it so I can eat my words, I challenge you.

DennisMK

Level 1

0 points

May 3, 2009 12:02 AM in response to Riverside_Guy

If you check my post above on April 6, you'll see that I described the exact same problem as well as a workaround to "fix" it.

As far as Apple knowing about these issues, I asked a Genius at one of my local Apple stores and he looked it up. While he couldn't comment on fixing it (of course) he did confirm that it is a known issue.

May 3, 2009 4:51 AM in response to DennisMK

I am happy that it seems this issue has been acknowledged... that should mean it will be fixed. And thanks for posting that... I'm sure you realize half the battle is getting acknowledgment.

Now that I have a far better feeling what is going on, your 4/6 post does make sense. Except, monkeyshines 4/21 post seems to be saying there's an issue using your workaround. Besides, I only do music so my "work-around" of simply not changing the order should also tide me over until I can regain the ability to move stuff around.

DennisMK

Level 1

0 points

May 4, 2009 11:09 AM in response to Riverside_Guy

I actually used to do the same thing as Monkeysports: after using Autofill to put random songs to fill the space after my podcasts, I would copy that list from the Shuffle to an "iPod" playlist. Since dragging from the Shuffle no longer works, I'm basically just building the playlist first, then dragging it to the Shuffle.

May 4, 2009 11:42 AM in response to DennisMK

I do that too, and it's a decent workaround until you want to add a few (or worse--s single) track(s) in a specific spot on the Shuffle, you then have to delete everything that's on the Shuffle and re-transfer. Now if you're like me and conver everything to AAC upon transfer to utilize space, this could take a good hour plus when you're trying to move over 900MB at a pop. This gets old quick.

iTunes 8.1 breaks syncing with 2nd gen iPod shuffle