Quad G5 Liquid Cooling Pump Chugging, nasty thermal disparity between cpu's

"+Interesting because the pumps do say Delphi very clearly on the lids. Kool G4 do you know whether Cooligy still exist?+"

These pumps, aka model "DC3", were produced for Cooligy by Laing Thermotech in Hungary, under license from Delphi. At the time, Laing had not yet re-tooled the molds for the pump body to remove the "Delphi" name, but since has done so. The LCS's were built by Cooligy to their design, and the dual "Delphi" pump configuration was unique to their product, however, they shared few parts with the Delphi version of the LCS. It sounds like Cooligy units mentioned were having problems balancing the flows between the two CPU blocks ... probably from either blockage within in the cooling blocks or lines or simply lack of sufficient liquid level to feed the pumps.

Sounds like you have some inside track on the manufacture, do you know whether these blocks are still available? It does seem like the blocks are prone to failure, mine are still showing thermal disparity but the problem with the fans is under control. Do you think cooligy could supply these blocks as spares.

Hey guys this thread has been a good read. I really appreciate the information you all are sharing. I'm in the same boat as many of you with cooling issues and my Quad is way out of warranty too. I'd try Apple support again as suggest earlier in the thread but I've had the machine apart myself already and suspect that would lead to no exceptions for me.

I plan to disassemble my pumps today. But I have concerns that my processors may already be fried and I'll be wasting my time. I get the red "overtemp" LED and "cpu hang" LED every time (diagnositic LEDs #2 and #7 on the motherboard). I am hoping that whatever failsafe mechanisms are in place have saved me and my processors are still OK.

First question:
Has anyone else been able to get their machine back from this point after repairing the pumps?

Second question:
Does anyone know for sure if the two pump styles are interchangeable? I have the Delphi version but have a lead on a Panasonic version for "cheap".

Thanks in advance!
Doc

Doc,
I'm afraid that I can't help with whether your processors are already toast, but I encourage you to at least try to re-build. It's not all that hard and I've had fun doing it, even though one of my blocks re-clogged and I still don't have a working machine. I have read elsewhere on liquid cooling sites that the processors are designed to shut down before permanent damage is done, but I cannot say how reliable that information is.

As to Cooligy, their web site is still operational, but using the "Contact Us" button on the site results in a bounced email. Cooligy was sold to a division of Emerson several years ago. You can find a link to Cooligy by digging through the Emerson web site, but it does not appear that they're set up to handle contacts from end users. I think that they're focused on creating OEM cooling solutions for Emerson computers and perhaps other OEMs.

I am now in contact with a company named Danger Den. Their support staff tells me by email that they will do custom versions of their cooling blocks. They have cooling blocks for Intel chipset chips (Northbridge and Southbridge) that are very close to what we need for the "Version 2" LCS in the Quad (the one with 2 pumps). I am sending them drawings tomorrow and will update the group on the response that I get.

Jon

Update:
I thought I'd add the pin-outs for the 2 pump (Delphi) setup. I don't see in the thread where this has been noted.

The Delphi 2 pump connector has 4 wires leading to each pump but the connector is 12 pins. Then pins are numbered on the back of the connector, but I'll try to detail the layout. With the connector in hand the notch will be to the left and pin 1 at the top and pin 12 (empty) at the bottom. Pins 1-2 correlate to pin 1 on each pump, pins 3-4 to pin 2 on each pump, pins 5-6 to 3, and pins 7-8 to pin 4 on each pump. Pin locations 9, 10, and 12 are empty. Lastly there is a jumper wire on the back of pin to pin 8.

I am able to power the pumps by applying +12 volts to pins 1 and 2 and ground to pins 7 and 8. Then apply +12 volts to pins 5 and/or 6 to run the pumps. Leaving them connected and then turning on the bench power supply does not seem to work. I had to disconnect and reconnect the power to pins 5 and 6 to get the pumps to come on. Conversely, disconnecting and reconnecting power to pins 1 and 2 with 5/6 connected did not start the pumps. It may also be worth noting that my 3 Amp bench supply would only power 1 pump at a time so I had to use my 25 Amp supply to power both pumps.

Hope this helps someone.

Doc

Thanks Jon. I am trying the rebuild now. I'll post more details as I go.

Doc

I don't believe Cooligy is still in business.

"+Does anyone know for sure if the two pump styles are interchangeable? I have the Delphi version but have a lead on a Panasonic version for "cheap".+"

The Panasonic version, at least the early ones, had the pump and cold plate integrated into a single unit. This is completely different from the Delphi or Cooligy units which have the pump separate from the cold plate. It definitely would not be a drop-in replacement. You must also be careful on the vintage of the LCS, the 1st generation intended for the 2.5 GHz G5 will not work on the 2.7 GHz or later liquid-cooled G5s. You can tell these apart as the early units had a 6-pin connection plug from the pump, and the later, a 12-pin.

Kool G4 -
It seems to me that if it's from a quad G5 then the chassis is likely to be the same. But that's a guess. I was just studying some pictures of the single pump version from a Quad machine and it has the same 12 pin connector so I should be good to go.

Update:
I've got my LCS apart now and have tested the pumps. The work fine. I did notice that they get air locked pretty easily. The closed tube test system I am using has a tiny amount of air in it but it won't pump with much more than that.

There was a small amount of debris but no obvious blockages. I only recovered 200cc of coolant. That volume seems low to me, but that's a guess too.

Doc

Update:

Test filling with distilled water has been a task. I'm considering adding a schrader valve or something... LOL.

All might be for naught, I bought a used unit from a Quad G5 pull. If it's a drop in replacement then I'll shelve this one for now.

200ml is the right amount, certainly I had the same amount from mine, I managed to spill over 800ml filling my dual pump which gives you an idea of the trouble I had, and you are right they do air lock quickly.

The method that has worked best for me is to add a small amount of pipe to the feed tube using a sealant and super glue which can be plugged with a nut covered in plumbing leak stopper and then coated in epoxy. For the bleed tube a small screw can be screwed in and again covered in epoxy. Using this method I can open the system again to fill if there are any problems. Also the system can be sealed very quickly without fluid loss.

While filling I switched off the pump got the air bubble out of the pump to the top of the radiator and then manipulated it towards the bleed tube by tipping it. Using this method I have managed to get one side of the system working very well, the other I might have another go at but since the fan noise is massively reduced I will leave it for now.

Finding a pulled processor/cooling unit would be a good outcome for me, I had been quoted some silly prices though like the same price as a complete second hand quad on ebay.

LondonMac,

I've been watching ebay - there have been and still are a few units with buy it now prices around $600 USD, but one came up as a regular auction. I bid in the hopes that it would stay low and won it for just over $200 shipped.

UPDATE:
Tonight I tinkered on testing my processors. I bought a couple of off the self copper coolers from a local big box electronics store and took the bulky fan piece off and put the copper plate and fins in the freezer for a while. I mounted my processor boards in the case without all the LCS parts and put a dab of thermal grease on the CPU. With the Machine still flat on its side I placed the "frozen" copper coolers on each CPU and plugged the front fan back in and placed the plastic cover back on.
I powered it own and it posted (chimed) and made it all the way to loading screen on the ASD disk before it went into thermal shut down. (Diagnostic LEDs #2 and #7 light up).

That's got me thinking a custom cooling plate and piped out to external unit might be the ticket. I'll keep thinking on it because I just don't think the factory unit is a very good design.

Doc

jpmeyer wrote:

I am now in contact with a company named Danger Den. Their support staff tells me by email that they will do custom versions of their cooling blocks. They have cooling blocks for Intel chipset chips (Northbridge and Southbridge) that are very close to what we need for the "Version 2" LCS in the Quad (the one with 2 pumps). I am sending them drawings tomorrow and will update the group on the response that I get.

Jon,

I checked out the DangerDen website. Looks like that might be a good chance of getting a decent custom setup. I'm thinking if they can design a block with 2 fittings we could bolt it to the processor board and plumb in a custom setup- maybe even reuse the pumps and radiator from the stock LCS.

Hmmm.....

Doc

Message was edited by: drpwilloughby

Jon,

Another note about DangerDen - I couldn't sleep so I looked back at their site and found a [Universal cooling block|http://www.dangerden.com/store/mpc-universal-chipset-block.html#tabs] with a center to center hole range of that should fit on the Quads processor boards. I don't know if it will fit through the base plate of the LCS without modification, but I will make some more measurements when I get home tonight.

Have you heard back from them about a custom block?

Doc,

You are following the same line of thought as I am. My original email to Danger Den was to ask for the specific dimensions of that universal cooling block in order to see if it would fit. They immediately responded offering to do a custom. It makes sense that it would be easy for them to do a custom top, as it is just a simple piece of plastic with a few holes and a seat for an O-ring. I sent them detailed drawings of what we need, but I have not yet heard back.

The next problem is plumbing. A company named Koolance has some fittings that I think will work to connect a block to the 5/16 ID tubing that fits the radiator and S-tube. Of course, if you're going to replace large parts of the LCS, you'll have more flexibility. I thought briefly about that approach, but worried that I couldn't make the thermal calibration process work. I think that you need to connect the fans and pumps of your new cooling system to permit the firmware and/or OS to control them as it does the existing ones. Is that right?

Jon