Any software fix for 12 bit audio sync from miniDV problem?

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Any software fix for 12 bit audio sync from miniDV problem?

I know, use 16 bit... unfortunately I have 25 old miniDV tapes shot 10 years ago most if not all are 12 bit audio. (who knew back then the cam default would be a problem?) I obviously can't go back and re-shoot any of that. I would like to archive the tapes to DVD before the iron oxide falls off the tape. But it's not very useful if the video and audio get out of sync.

Is there any solution? It seems to me it's really a software issue to fix the sync, is there some other reason this can't be done? Can software other than iMovie and/or iDVD fix the problem? After archiving the footage to DVDs i'd like to use clips from them in iMovie and/or FCE hopefully with the audio and video in sync. I'd appreciate any suggestions the group may have or pointers to other articles on this issue. Thanks.

Mac 512, SE, Mac II, Quadra... iMac, 17" Powerbook, Luxo Jr., iMac 20" 2.66GHz Duo, 2GB 10.5.4

Posted on Mar 21, 2009 9:59 AM

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Answer 1

Mar 21, 2009 10:30 AM in response to Freddy50

When I first got my miniDV cam a few years back, I unknowingly had it set at 12 bit and was using iMovie HD with no issues. I don't think it was until some time later, after installing HD6, that I learned about 12 and 16 bit, but I'm pretty sure I had no problems with 12 bit and HD6 also.

If it is only iMovie 08 that causes you this problem, a fix may be to get a copy of HD6 from eBay.

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Answer 2

Freddy50 Author

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Mar 21, 2009 1:28 PM in response to Forest Mccready

I have iMovie 06 but not installed on my current Mac which came with 08.

I believe the problem is more of an iDVD issue than iMovie. As I understand it,short clips are OK, but long clips (20 minutes) burned to DVDs have issues. They play fine with QT or in iMovie, but burned to a DVD they end up loosing sync.

I would think there must be some software solution to this problem to transcode the 12bit audio/miniDV video file into a 16bit audio/miniDV video file.

My real concern is to get all my old tapes archived onto DVD-R media so they are 1) playable on something reasonable and 2) useful to grab clips from and 3) archived on something more reliable than tape.

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Answer 3

Mar 22, 2009 11:22 AM in response to Freddy50

Regarding:

"2) useful to grab clips from" - this is not a good idea as converting the DV to MPEG2 for the DVD-R and then reconverting back to DV if you want to re-edit in the future will cause a definite loss of quality. You could store the video on a data disc, in DV format, but you can only get about 20 minutes of video on a DVD in this format.

3) archived on something more reliable than tape.

There is still nothing more reliable than tape for archiving. DVD's are not to be considered a reliable storage medium. Buying the very best quality DVDs may help protect your video long term, but proper storage of original tapes is your best guarantee of having your video for decades.

Tapes should be stored standing on edge in their cases, not lying flat and in a cool dry place. It is also a good idea to fully rewind a tape once a year to prevent the tape sticking and from magnetic print through.

When I finish a movie, I not only keep the original tapes, but I record a copy of my finished movie back to a tape for archiving also.

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Answer 4

Freddy50 Author

Level 1

5 points

Mar 22, 2009 1:34 PM in response to Forest Mccready

Thank you, but....

+"2) useful to grab clips from" - this is not a good idea as converting the DV to MPEG2 for the DVD-R and then reconverting back to DV+

I don't want anything to do with DV once I've moved everything from tape to a random access media. DVDs are playable just about anywhere, while miniDV tape is not. Grabbing the clips is for iMovie projects which is by the nature of iMovie low quality (which of course depends on one's definition of low quality but to me iMovie is a low quality tool for spiffing up home movies, not making professional quality video work, thus quality of the resultant video is less important than convenience of access to the material.).

I will probably also archive the .dv files to a back up harddrive.... but that begs the question of how long I'll be able to read that drive. I have ~25 miniDV tapes and ~25 Hi8 (120minute) tapes. That's a lot of data to archive. And with Apple eliminating firewire on it's products my firewire drives are soon to become useless.

+There is still nothing more reliable than tape for archiving.+

? Do you know what magnets do to tape? They do not affect DVD.
And tape is not an archival media because I can't play back my Hi8 tapes because the original recorder broke and you can't buy a Hi8 deck these days. When the Digital 8 camcorder breaks the tape will be useless. I'm not sure you can buy a Digital 8 deck anymore, and how much longer will miniDV decks be produced? I doubt we will be able to buy one (a new one) a decade from now. DVDs (and CDs) will be playable for a long, long, long time. Much longer than any tape based media. Got 8-Track? And if Apple supported blue-ray I'd use those... maybe someday. Sooner or later the tapes won't be usable because I won't have access to a working playback deck.

What I'm doing is making old home movies playable (and thus watchable) for my grandkids and hopefully their kids.

I don't intend to throw away the tapes, but backing them up on DVD even with some loss in quality (which I doubt my viewers would even notice), at least makes the video available in some viewable form. If I still have a working deck and I want better quality then I can go back to the original tape.

The original question remains. Is there anyway to move an entire 60 minute miniDV tape recorded with 12 bit audio (unfortunately) to a DVD without the audio loosing sync? If anyone has a process for doing that I'd like to know what it is. Hopefully efficient and cheap. Thanks.

And I do understand the quality loss issue, at least theoretically, of lossy compression codecs. The loss of quality wasn't what I was worried about. Not having the video and audio synced makes the quality of the video image irrelevant because it isn't watchable.

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Answer 5

Mar 22, 2009 3:15 PM in response to Freddy50

Sorry I seem unable to provide answers with which you can agree, but what I have told you about archiving on tape is firmly supported by many other knowledgeable contributors here and I do keep my magnet collection well away from my stored tapes. 😉

Re the 12 to 16 bit audio. I am not certain, but I highly doubt you will find software that can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, so to speak.

As I said in my first post here, I had no problem with 12 bit audio and HD6, even with longer clips, after burning my DVDs. Why don't you TRY it?

Also, IF your camcorder has an AV out port, as mine does, you could connect your camcorder directly to a TV for playback of the tapes.

If in the future your tape recording devices fail, there will still be businesses that will be able to capture that recorded information and transfer it to the technology of the day. Tape has been around a very long time and it is still the preferred choice of most professional videographers today. It will still be usable for years to come. I believe that DVDs, on the other hand, will more quickly go the way of the dodo than tape will.

Finally, your impression of the quality of iMovie may relate to what the 08 and 09 versions can offer, but iMovie HD6 is most definitely a high quality editor, on the same level as Final Cut Pro, just with less complication for the novice home movie maker. It was designed to work only with Digital Video from a tape cam, giving lossless DV quality to the finished product. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Answer 6

Freddy50 Author

Level 1

5 points

Mar 23, 2009 7:06 AM in response to Forest Mccready

We just disagree on the longevity and reliability of tape, tape players v dvd and dvd players. I suppose one can still find a 78 vinyl record player somewhere... but all my VHS decks eat tape.... hench I don't dare put my old VHS home movies in them.

As to the 12 v 16 bit audio problem the issue isn't quality of the sound but the time the sounds plays back. I will try HD6 and burning DVDs when I have time to experiment. I was just hoping someone would have a definitive process for this. I'm sure I'm not the only one that ten years ago foolishly recorded in 12 bit audio.

And the problem is not playing the tapes from my current camcorder to a TV but transfer the video and audio (in sync) to DVD media and other media. miniDV in it's day was great technology but today... and if the deck screws up and shreds the tape I loose the video, which I can not replace. And playback is way to slow to skim through 25 hours of tape.

+I believe that DVDs, on the other hand, will more quickly go the way of the dodo than tape will.+

Time will certainly tell. But like I said try to find a new 8-track player. Does anyone still make them? Silver halide film has been around along time too, but not long ago several large camera makers stopped making film cameras. Sooner or latter so will everyone.

I do have iMovie HD6 and FCP and will experiment with them latter. Thanks.

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